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Max Craft Swords


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#1
Hatchford

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I guess this is more of a rant then it is and idea.. but its in crafting, so its good enough for me.

 

I don't keep a book so I don't know a precise number, but I know ive made at least 1k sword attempts (probably closer to 1500) at this point just going by the sheer number of metal spikes ive gone through. I'm gonna repeat that. 1k!! 1000, one thousand, ONE THOUSAND!!.... ive tried without gunsmith 9%, with gunsmith 9%, and even tried Quality Crafts 19% a couple times. in all of those attempts, ive yet to make even a SINGLE max craft sword. not even ONE!!

 

I understand crafting is random and that's for game balance and I accept that (not agree with). but I think after 1k attempts.... I should have made at least one or two max crafts by now. I understand the need for balance but this is kinda ridiculous.


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#2
Zingman

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Something to keep in mind...

 

When I did a batch crafting of HHPs I crafted max crafts about 1.6% of the time.

 

That was for one category (damage).   The blue swords have two (damage and APS), so you need to hit that 1.6% shot in both -- on the same sword.


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#3
Hatchford

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I finally got my max craft today after 2 more crafting runs and about another 150-200 attempts...

 

I still think the roll for max craft swords is a lil low though :( ... but im glad I finally have one :)


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#4
Zingman

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Assuming  1.6% is the percentage for a max craft (which is a very big assumption)

 

1.6% x 1.6% = 0.0256% chance of getting a max craft in both.  That's about 1 in every 3906 attempts.

 

That probably isn't 100% correct though, somebody better with statistics could give a more "accurate" response.


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#5
Hatchford

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assuming your calculations or my experience from crafting.... do you think 1 in 3900 is fair odds? hell.. even 1 in 2000?

that's my whole point in this thread... I understand the need for balance... I just don't think this particular items odds is balanced


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#6
Zingman

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The only way you could really improve the odds would be if the crafting bonus was the same across all categories.

 

i.e. for blue swords

 

A 1% craft bonus would give you a 1% bonus to damage and a 1% bonus to APS; and

 

A 25% craft bonus would give you a 25% bonus to damage and a 25% bonus to APS.

 

As long as they're independent of each other the odds will remain pretty low.

 

If you did that however, I'd expect the value of max-craft swords to freefall, as they would become very common.


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#7
Hatchford

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your dancing around my question...

 

do you think the rarity at which max crafts are currently made fair, balance and/or reasonable? simple yes or no...

 

I don't need a break down of numbers or speculations... are you happy with the way it is now?


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#8
Zingman

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Short answer yes, long answer no.

 

From a statistical point of view, as long as they crafting boosts are separate for each category I'm fine with them being as rare as they are, because then they're behaving like you would expect them to.   Also when looking at the playerbase as a whole, if the size of the playerbase is roughly 400K, and everyone crafted just one sword, at 1/4000 odds that means there are 100 perfect crafts out there.  But most people craft more than one (though far less than some batch crafters) so even at those odds there probably several hundred perfect crafts.   Several hundred given the power of a perfect sword, heck even a non-perfect sword, which is stronger than any current unique melee, seems "about right" to me.

 

However when you look at from the context of an individual user, and the fact that its a video game, then yes, the extremely long odds seem a bit... harsh.   Not every player is going to be able to stack crafting boosts to the point where they can craft several thousand swords, and even fewer would have the resources to craft tens of thousands of swords to get multiple perfect crafts.  Furthermore a perfect craft sword isn't worth that much effort in my honest opinion.    Yes its the most powerful melee weapon out there, but the amount of effort for an individual to get one, never mind multiples, seems a bit high.


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#9
Harpago

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+1 Zingman

 

Perfectly put


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#10
Harpago

Harpago
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I'm not resurrecting this pointlessly, i've asked the question elsewhere but now can't find the thread.. so here will do, given I am curious about an answer..

 

Con, what the heck is the definition of 'improvised?' I'm stumped here. 

 

Crafted Swords, Crafted Long saws, but did you simply forget the improvised with Mezzaluna Axes, tonfa blades, and even chainsaws? I love crafting, but the three latter items just seem pointless, except perhaps a well crafted tonfa blade without that move penalty. Surely through, especially the pizza axe and the tonfa are as improvised as the crafted sword and the crafted long saw? I don't really see the point of the pizza axe otherwise, it doesn't have the reach of the long saw, and at the level doesn't trump other crafted melee even on a max craft by a long short. At the same time crafting a purple chainsaw costs almost as much to craft, is almost as deadly as it's long saw equivalent, but why bother without the improvised bonus, despite being the iconic weapon of the zombie genre?

 

Now how to make Con spot this thread... :)

 

Edit: Where are my question marks when I need them!


Edited by Harpago, 25 February 2015 - 12:22 AM.

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#11
Takata

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Short answer yes, long answer no.

 if the size of the playerbase is roughly 400K,

 

Seriously... do you believe in such number? a 400K 'playerbase' for this game?
Maybe half that number of people ever played it once.... meaning, 90% for a couple of weeks only :)
And I would assume that less than 10K people are connecting per day on the most populated server (AG/FB)... during a full 24 hour cycle.
Hundreds of thousand, well, it's complete bullshit.


Edited by Takata, 25 February 2015 - 02:16 AM.


#12
Zingman

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Seriously... do you believe in such number? a 400K 'playerbase' for this game?
Maybe half that number of people ever played it once.... meaning, 90% for a couple of weeks only :)
And I would assume that less than 10K people are connecting per day on the most populated server (AG/FB)... during a full 24 hour cycle.
Hundreds of thousand, well, it's complete bullshit.

 

First off...

 

June 2013: Con indicates there are about 300K users.

 

Deadzone just hit 50 million "plays" on Armor Games and is pushing 20 million on Kong.   Both of which combined with Yahoo even are smaller than the playerbase on Facebook.

 

So yes there is a significant size to the playerbase, certainly way higher than you're giving it credit for.   Now you could argue that the playerbase has shrunk since June 2013 however since then a new server has opened and Con has hired two new employees -- that's signs of growth, not shrinkage.

 

Secondly...

 

400K is only a guesstimate on my part, as I said if the player base is that size, with if being the important word there.  So while yes its a guess, it's certainly better than yours (10k).  10k users (of which only about 2% (200) are playing customers) does not pay six peoples salaries + overhead.

 

That's the real BS here.


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#13
Takata

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300K players in June 2013, maybe it was the number of accounts started before this date, but  for all my accounts, I had started before this point, they have a target list which is looking now populated at 99% by dead accounts for sure!

50 million 'plays' at AG is no surprise. Each time one is loading his game, it's counting as a 'new play'. Some people (like me) are reloading 100+ times per day, hence it's hundreds of thousands 'play' over those few years.

Not so long time ago, a Dev stated how many accounts were actually connected accross ALL servers, and it was only a few thousands people, which was a few more times the number of people connected on chat on AG/FB. Also, note that this number is not increasing in time, but rather diminishing since about a year. Also, this doesn't take into account that many players are actually connected to more than one account at the same time. I can run up to 4 myself simultaneously when looting. 

So, your number of 400K is vastly overestimated, in my opinion. Arround 10K per day roughly, considering that the player base is larger than the daily connection rate, and that the spendings of those few 'paying' real money can compensate for a few hundreds, ever paying a dime. I'm pretty sure that Con & Co are not swimming into a pool full of earned banknotes !
:)

I'm just saying, as I know it's not the subject of this post.


Edited by Takata, 25 February 2015 - 07:43 AM.


#14
Con

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Still hovering around 300k players monthly and about 40-50k players daily. Concurrent users is around 2-3k, about 5-10% of those people use chat. Over it's lifetime, Dead Zone has had about 6 million registered players so far. Also, we're not Scrooge McDucking over here. :)

 

To answer Hatch's earlier question. Those chances are really small as Zing pointed out. Hitting those two small percentages in a row is tough as you've learned.



#15
Harpago

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Hey Con, did you scroll up a bit: http://forum.conarti...words/?p=108639

 

I'm really curious how the game defines 'Improvised.' Thanks :) 


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#16
Con

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I'm really curious how the game defines 'Improvised.' Thanks :)

 

It's defined on the item. Each item has a "class" and then one or more categories. So the Swords for example are classified as "melee", that's the overarching class. The categories are then defined, they're:

 

- Two Handed

- Blade

- Improvised

 

We use these for a variety of things like animations and stat bonuses.



#17
Zingman

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I think the confusion Con comes from the fact that "improvised" firearms (the 2nd amendment comes to mind) not receiving a bonus when equipped by an engineer, who is supposed to get a bonus from "improvised" weapons.


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#18
Harpago

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Well there's an answer. Thanks Con. I think I have been a little confused for exactly what Zingman says above^

 

But confused no more :)


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#19
Con

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I think the confusion Con comes from the fact that "improvised" firearms (the 2nd amendment comes to mind) not receiving a bonus when equipped by an engineer, who is supposed to get a bonus from "improvised" weapons.

 

Hrmmm, I've never noticed that. It is weird. Those weapons have the same category tag as the melee weapons with the same category.

 

My guess is that the code is restricting improvised bonuses to melee weapons, which is a hold over from when we first put them in. Improvised firearms came along a little later.

 

Will have the guys check it.



#20
SixDasher

SixDasher
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Short version: We need a lvl45-50 melee added to the game.

 

 

PS: I am not sure, but think the improvised melee vest (recon vest) also has an issue with the improvised part not doing anything on the blue swords vs say a regular melee vest.


Edited by SixDasher, 17 March 2015 - 11:22 PM.

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