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White Flag Changes - Coming Next Week


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#21
T_J

T_J
  • 481 posts

This sounds like a great, simple, reasonable fix. Thank you!

 

 

Any chance we could discus the whole melee/Smoke raids? For my input, they suck. Its like giving away the War reward boxes for exploiting. Simple fix, don't allow container search while in smoke. Smoke should be used to get from one place to another. Running should be the only action allowed in smoke.


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#22
Con

Con
  • 4,248 posts

forcing people to raid lol! usually i have WF for the first 3 days of the war or after our war task is done, that's where i started to raid til the end of the round!

 

You can still do that.



#23
Con

Con
  • 4,248 posts

Any chance we could discus the whole melee/Smoke raids? For my input, they suck. Its like giving away the War reward boxes for exploiting. Simple fix, don't allow container search while in smoke. Smoke should be used to get from one place to another. Running should be the only action allowed in smoke.

 

Yeah, we've been giving "ninja" raids some thought too. They're fun for the person doing them, but they suck for the victim. We pretty much came to the same conclusion as you, but we'll post about that later.



#24
epigoni

epigoni
  • 24 posts

firstly :  Not really sure how the proposed changes are going to get more people into raiding , I think it could just have the opposite effect . I've said this many times the WF should be timed , that's the only way to make this game fair and realistic . Doing so would basically change the dynamics of the game and force' players into the war/raiding . Not doing this is a determent to game .

 

Secondly :  If you feel that you want to help the aggrieved player whom is constantly trashed ,  put a cap on the percentage of the compound that is trashed. Make it that the raider doing the trashing has a cool down of say three days , that he can't revisit/raid that compound again. For example; A compound that is raided and is more than 75% trashed , triggers an automatic cool down on the player doing the raiding ! 

 

Thirdly : And lastly a side note on XP . The current  system of your leader gaining XP even though he/she is inactive ( doesn't participate in manual mission and or raids ) is quite frankly absurd . Not being able to enjoy the lower levels ( build up an arsenal of weapons/gear) ,  so that you can learn more and become a better player is derisory  . And is not in the best interest of the game

 

The current system of constantly upgrading your weapons/gear because you level up so fast , is what essentially  stops players from joining the war/raiding in the first place ( note the high level of alts currently in the game* ) . It's not by chance that this is happening , your current system doesn't allow players to fully experience what the game has to offer. Forcing them to level up and reach untenable levels fast is again not in the best interest of the game.

A simple remedy to this is that the leader only gains a small percentage of  XP ,  if that said leader is not actively involved in raids or manual missions.



#25
Frank Horrigan

Frank Horrigan
  • 25 posts

Interesting change, and for the better, i guess. I'm not entirely convinced, but i kinda like it.

It seems fair. That's what the white flag is, isn't it? You decide to opt out, then you're out. No glory, no war points, no rewards, no score for that round.

Since protection is a necessary evil in this imperfect gameplay, using it as a way to get advantage in PvP (attacking and hiding behind artificial barriers) can be seen as a misuse or abuse of the rules, that defies the very idea of protection. Especially when we assume that things as WF are ment for those who decide to withdraw from the competition, not for those who want to use them as a mean of effective PvP strategy.

 

Though i'm not sure, i think it is a step in good direction.


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#26
Zingman

Zingman
  • 3,179 posts

First impression:  good.   If a lot of players are using this tactic, then it's giving legit White Flag players a bad name.  The White Flag is not supposed to be used as a raiding tactic in any form.

 

Edit: deleted 2nd impression upon thinking about it some more.  it's a good change


Edited by Zingman, 12 March 2015 - 04:19 AM.

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#27
DZplayer

DZplayer
  • 368 posts

Maybe i don't understand, but it sounds like you are contradicting yourself, at first you say the war points are removed from the alliance, and then you say they are only the individual war points are being removed.

 

Will the alli lose points if a member puts WF?

 

So someone can join an alli, raid the whole round, and then wf the last hour of the war and make the alli lose points? 


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#28
gansai

gansai
  • 166 posts


Your alliance will get a notice on the Alliance Wall that you have disabled Player vs Player Raiding and how many War Points were removed from the Alliance.

erm so does that mean that my points will be deduced from alliance also?


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#29
Con

Con
  • 4,248 posts

Maybe i don't understand, but it sounds like you are contradicting yourself, at first you say the war points are removed from the alliance, and then you say they are only the individual war points are being removed.

 

Will the alli lose points if a member puts WF?

 

So someone can join an alli, raid the whole round, and then wf the last hour of the war and make the alli lose points? 

 

No worries, it's a bit confusing. 

 

Example:

 

- I raid a bunch of people and score 200 points. 

- If I decide to put a White Flag on, I will lose those 200 points. 

- The overall Alliance Score will be deducted 200 points.

- The Alliance is notified via the Alliance Wall that I have activated PVP protection and that 200 points were removed.

- I will not get the Individual rewards.

 

I was clarifying earlier because it seemed as though people were assuming that if even one person put on a White Flag that they would lose all of their alliance's score.

 

 

To answer your question about people trolling the alliance by white flagging. This can happen, yes. But the person is named on the Alliance Wall, so they can be held responsible if this case arises. They also get nothing out of it. Do you think someone who is willing to work hard enough to get a significant amount of points where it would affect a top 3 alliance would do this?



#30
Con

Con
  • 4,248 posts

erm so does that mean that my points will be deduced from alliance also?

 

Yes.



#31
gansai

gansai
  • 166 posts

Yes.

okay alliance had 1000 points and i score 200 points so i put my white flag on and alliance will lost 200 points and became 800 points am i right?


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#32
epigoni

epigoni
  • 24 posts

okay alliance had 1000 points and i score 200 points so i put my white flag on and alliance will lost 200 points and became 800 points am i right?

 

 

correct 



#33
Edgar V

Edgar V
  • 122 posts

I was thinking for something that might fix trashing...

 

 

How about adding a Half-way-down state to barricades.

 

So that there'd be three stages of barricade health.

 

Reinforced: 100% health, barricade offers maximum protection.

 

Breached: 50% health, it's partially destroyed, so it offers half of the protection towards gunfire. And people can walk through the breached parts. Survivors can walk through it with a slight speed penalty.

 

Repairing a Breached barricade would cost significantly less then a fully destroyed barricade.

 

Destroyed 0% Health, offers no protection, survivors can cross through it.

 

As for the time it takes to get to these stages.

 

It should be around 33%-50% longer to deplete the entire of it's health, so that people will have a difficult time trashing the entire base before the timer runs down.

 

Let me know what you think of this solution.

 

I personally don't raid (because when i have tried, i got trashed all the time), but this doesnt sound like a bad idea to me. in fact, this could even reduce both the time and cost for repairs on a short term for people who doesnt like to be trashed by looters or trolling players (belive me, i dont like raiding because of people like them).

 

I was thinking as well, why not to add a negative score to the war points for every destroyed barricade. This would make, first: that raiders care much more no to trash to avoid losing points when raiding others, and second: this would help some players to handle a little better the repair and trashing issues for non-raider players (as me).

 

lets say, like with the new scores, if its 100 wp for scavenging 50% of the containers, 100 wp for the 100% and 100 more wp for the flag, just add -150 for destroying 25% of the barricades, and -300 wp for destroying 50% or more of the barricades. I dont know, maybe that would solve the trashing issue. At least for me, i mean, if i were a raider, would make me think twice before trying to annoy anyone else trashing all of their compound...

 

waddaya people say? :)


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#34
DJfriede

DJfriede
  • 888 posts

I like the changes and have no objections. :)

 

Maybe you could think about making waving the White Flag impossible when there's a bounty on one's head? Or maybe pause the bounty time as long as the WF is equipped (as others mentioned in this thread)? It's annoying to see people with 100 fuel bounties hiding behind a White Flag.


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#35
LLiquid

LLiquid
  • 2,533 posts

I don't understand the reason that the timing of when a player puts on the White Flag affects anything. From what has been said;

 

Player A starts raiding for 5 days. On day 6, they decide to stop and equip the White Flag. They lose all the individual War Points ad the Alliance loses the points player A earnt.

 

Player B starts the War round lootinng under White Flag protection for 5 days. They take the flag off and raid for 2 days, earning 200 points. Thy get to keep the Individual War Reward and their alliance does too.

 

Both of those scenario's have players being "active" in War for 2 days and spent 5 days under White Flag protection but one gets rewarded while the other doesn't.

 

If using a White Flag at any point throughout a War Round stopped a player from earning War Points, it would fix this obvious exploit.


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#36
SMAM Man

SMAM Man
  • 95 posts

I like the changes and have no objections. :)

 

Maybe you could think about making waving the White Flag impossible when there's a bounty on one's head? Or maybe pause the bounty time as long as the WF is equipped (as others mentioned in this thread)? It's annoying to see people with 100 fuel bounties hiding behind a White Flag.

 

That is a great idea! +1 and then some from me.  If you raided and got a bounty, you can't have WF up


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#37
DJfriede

DJfriede
  • 888 posts

I don't understand the reason that the timing of when a player puts on the White Flag affects anything. From what has been said;

 

Player A starts raiding for 5 days. On day 6, they decide to stop and equip the White Flag. They lose all the individual War Points ad the Alliance loses the points player A earnt.

 

Player B starts the War round lootinng under White Flag protection for 5 days. They take the flag off and raid for 2 days, earning 200 points. Thy get to keep the Individual War Reward and their alliance does too.

 

Both of those scenario's have players being "active" in War for 2 days and spent 5 days under White Flag protection but one gets rewarded while the other doesn't.

 

If using a White Flag at any point throughout a War Round stopped a player from earning War Points, it would fix this obvious exploit.

 

You have a point here.


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#38
Jillian Storm

Jillian Storm
  • 9 posts

This sounds like a great, simple, reasonable fix. Thank you!

 

 

Any chance we could discus the whole melee/Smoke raids? For my input, they suck. Its like giving away the War reward boxes for exploiting. Simple fix, don't allow container search while in smoke. Smoke should be used to get from one place to another. Running should be the only action allowed in smoke.

Melee/smoke raids might be an exploit, but looting under cover of smoke is not, imo.
Many people will know that personally, my raiding style is killing just enough defenders and destroying just enough buildings in order to get to the flag and get out, which in many cases includes grabbing the flag under cover of smoke. It's one of those things that is still fun and requires some skill instead of ONLY weapons and gear. Otherwise it's just a firefight until one side dies (parking lot defenses, spawn traps).
 

 

I like the changes and have no objections.  :)

 

Maybe you could think about making waving the White Flag impossible when there's a bounty on one's head? Or maybe pause the bounty time as long as the WF is equipped (as others mentioned in this thread)? It's annoying to see people with 100 fuel bounties hiding behind a White Flag.

Pausing seems like the best choice here - WF is very important when people want to get out of the game for a while, we shouldn't restrict their right to do so.


Edited by Jillian Storm, 12 March 2015 - 11:39 AM.

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#39
keer

keer
  • 68 posts

Yeah, we've been giving "ninja" raids some thought too. They're fun for the person doing them, but they suck for the victim. We pretty much came to the same conclusion as you, but we'll post about that later.

Yeah, thank God ninja raids will get the boot.

 

I wouldn't want to spend so much on my Mom's credit card just to have some guy able to beat my expensive guns with a little skill.

I don't think the playing field should be evened like that, cash is king. 


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#40
JCBecks

JCBecks
  • 271 posts

I'm guilty of White Flagging after a few days of raiding... it's not done intentionally to be a chickenshit and avoid retaliation, but moreso to enter "loot mode" and wrap up war tasks. I honestly never considered that I then restrict the raiding market for others to score their points and get a war box. I have no issues with this change.


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