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White Flag Changes - Coming Next Week


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#41
DZplayer

DZplayer
  • 368 posts

What if they score the needed points then leave the alliance and rejoin and become enlisting or just score enough points and leave the alliance?

 

True... but they cant help on war tasks if they do that


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#42
Hatchford

Hatchford
  • 920 posts

im retired from raiding now.. but I like the concept... I pushed for changes to WF a long time ago... if your gonna play in the wars.. you should either be in or out... its that simple really... that's just my opinion tho.


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#43
ruawizard

ruawizard
  • 426 posts

Great changes! Particularly about the bonus for hitting the bigger scorers. Hopefully this will make alt raiding a little more painful + make the wars a little less crushing for newer and/or casual raiders just getting their feet wet.

 

 

This sounds like a great, simple, reasonable fix. Thank you!

 

 

Any chance we could discus the whole melee/Smoke raids? For my input, they suck. Its like giving away the War reward boxes for exploiting. Simple fix, don't allow container search while in smoke. Smoke should be used to get from one place to another. Running should be the only action allowed in smoke.

 

I agree that the melee/smoke raids should be ended (where you equip melees and spawn right next to the defenders at the car and smoke/nade your way to the flag), but that should NOT be done by eliminating a great tactic that can be used against compounds with far superior weapons.  If you outgun me, you better believe I'm not gonna try to take you head on.  You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater by eliminating searches in smoke. A different solution would be to make attackers hittable while throwing grenades behind the street cars and barricades, which can't be done at the moment.


Edited by ruawizard, 12 March 2015 - 02:48 PM.

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#44
justinsr316

justinsr316
  • 854 posts

What if they score the needed points then leave the alliance and rejoin and become enlisting or just score enough points and leave the alliance?

Con this should be added with this change or soon afterwards as well. I know that you know that many people have used the re-enlisting tactic before during wars. They put up a bunch of points and then just leave the alliance and immediately join back so that they don't have to equip the WF or fear people raiding them for points and they don't bleed points from their alliance. Leaving the alliance for enlisting should face the same penalties in my opinion.

 

I don't understand the reason that the timing of when a player puts on the White Flag affects anything. From what has been said;

 

Player A starts raiding for 5 days. On day 6, they decide to stop and equip the White Flag. They lose all the individual War Points ad the Alliance loses the points player A earnt.

 

Player B starts the War round lootinng under White Flag protection for 5 days. They take the flag off and raid for 2 days, earning 200 points. Thy get to keep the Individual War Reward and their alliance does too.

 

Both of those scenario's have players being "active" in War for 2 days and spent 5 days under White Flag protection but one gets rewarded while the other doesn't.

 

If using a White Flag at any point throughout a War Round stopped a player from earning War Points, it would fix this obvious exploit.

This +1.

 

I think I see more people take the first several days off of the war until tasks are done and then enter it than i see people putting on the flag towards the end. I've seen people do it so that they can focus on tasks first and because the war starts during the week so that they keep their WF on during the work week and then put up a couple hundred points on Saturday and Sunday. 

 

There are also some that have many alts and will WF an alt and not use him at all but will bring him out on the last day or 2 if the war is close and they can use those extra points. 

 

So, I'm with those that agree that a WF at all during a war round for a raider is essentially the same thing whether the first part of the week or the latter. I'm not against someone using a WF but using it at the beginning or the end is the same thing. 


Edited by justinsr316, 12 March 2015 - 04:07 PM.

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#45
Hatchford

Hatchford
  • 920 posts

ok... I did just think of one major potential flaw with this... I think this opens up the door for potential subterfuge and spy games in the alliance wars... what if people join an alliance... build it up... and right at the end... equip WF en masse for maximum damage? I support and individual loss of points as in per the war rewards... but I dunno how smart it is to take them away from the alliance.... that might be opening up a can of worms there....


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#46
keer

keer
  • 68 posts

ok... I did just think of one major potential flaw with this... I think this opens up the door for potential subterfuge and spy games in the alliance wars... what if people join an alliance... build it up... and right at the end... equip WF en masse for maximum damage? I support and individual loss of points as in per the war rewards... but I dunno how smart it is to take them away from the alliance.... that might be opening up a can of worms there....

Nah, that wont happen unless a bunch of people are pissed off at the alliance.

 

What is more likely is payment to top scorers to WF so the next alliance can overtake at the very end.  Sounds fun.


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#47
Ghost Recon

Ghost Recon
  • 566 posts

Con what if I had a white flag equipped while I have a 100 fuel bounty?. That fuel bounty will just be wasted.


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#48
SixDasher

SixDasher
  • 252 posts

Hatch, you do have a point. If someone sends an alt into a rival alliance, scores 200-300 points, and when it gets close just puts on WF to lower the total points of that alliance.

 

I know killmorr is in like 2-3 alliances at the same time with his alts, and a few more like him. You could basically blackmaiil an alliance.

 

In effect we're making the white flag into a more permanent opt-out for raiding. Could it then just not be counted as a book but given it's own slot (only ussuable for the WF)?


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#49
Zingman

Zingman
  • 3,179 posts

ok... I did just think of one major potential flaw with this... I think this opens up the door for potential subterfuge and spy games in the alliance wars... what if people join an alliance... build it up... and right at the end... equip WF en masse for maximum damage? I support and individual loss of points as in per the war rewards... but I dunno how smart it is to take them away from the alliance.... that might be opening up a can of worms there....

 

That was my initial second reaction. But then I thought about it some more.

 

If points are not taken away from the alliance then it benefits the alliance if players who are not going to get rewards anyway (as they're outside of the top ten in the alliance) equip the white flag at the end of the round so that other alliances can't score points off them.

 

Taken to extremes, say there is an alliance of 10 players, each with two additional alts in the alliance.   For the first few days they use all accounts (30) to score points.   Once they secure a top 3 position they white flag the alt accounts leaving opposing alliances only 10 targets to hit.

 

---

 

In effect we're making the white flag into a more permanent opt-out for raiding. Could it then just not be counted as a book but given it's own slot (only ussuable for the WF)?

 

That's largely what it was always meant to be -- a semi-permanent, but easily reversible by the player themselves "opt out" of raiding.   As I said before in your own thread, using up the book slot is the price of opting out of raiding -- which is supposed to be part of the game.  If you don't like that price, don't pay it.


Edited by Zingman, 12 March 2015 - 07:51 PM.

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#50
Zingman

Zingman
  • 3,179 posts

Con what if I had a white flag equipped while I have a 100 fuel bounty?. That fuel bounty will just be wasted.

 

That's your opinion

 

As I've said before, in my opinion it's not.


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#51
Myst

Myst
  • 82 posts

Some alliances go all out and raid in the first few days, then when they secured a desired spot on the charts, they will loot. This is especially prominent when there is the 25% loot bonus, raiding alliances typically raid as much as possible in the first few days then activate boost and loot. So this means they must loot without WF on or they lose all their points...are they not entitled to be able to loot in peace anymore?

 

Also, real life situations can happen at any time and most of the time you're not expecting it. Say a raider goes and raids, then suddenly something comes up and they are unable to raid. Alliance members would ask them to WF to prevent flags from leaking...

 

And as others have stated, this is highly exploitable.

 

Yes, the name of the user who WFs will be on the alliance wall and they will be kicked if it happens repeatedly. There are an average of 40 members in a raiding alliance, if each made an alt(or two) to sabotage their opponent by raiding then WFing at the last day, there is no way to catch them all before the damage is done.


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#52
Ivan

Ivan
  • 571 posts

Idk..this about big scorers being worth more points and vice versa seems to me is punishing the players that are investing the most time and effort to score. Seems illogical. But have to wait and see.

 

Rua commented that it would discourage alt raiding..rather I d say will encourage having more alts and scoring less overall with each of them. But idk who is crazy enough to do it. I can only talk about what i know. If i wont be able to help my alliance in any significant way after scoring couple hundred that will reduce my raiding activity not increase it. Will there be people there to wear my shoes? On some servers maybe, not on all. And this what I said applies more to other alliances on Kong than to mine.

 

I expect it will be shutting down overall war points earned per round..at least on Kong.

 

And again,what hugo said..war system needs changing. Player base needs to have competitive motivation to join wars. More than 3 alliances need to win fuel.

And warboxes better..but thx for trying Con.


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#53
LLiquid

LLiquid
  • 2,533 posts

One ( or five ) more thing...

 

1. You must restrict merging alliances and switch from one to another from round to round ( because the risks of swaping flags etc. )

Switching alliances must cost 5 to 10K fuel ( or more, i dont care )

 

2. Also, constantly leaving and re-joining the alliance, to gain status enlisted, must be restricted somehow

 
3. You must limit number of alts to 2 ( or 3 )
 
4. It would be really fair to make vintage boxes drop again so everyone have vintage m24's, not just old players on their alts. Raid against such ennemies is almost impossible in 7 min with same lvl guns.
 
5. Better chance of finding unis will decrease ammount of mounted white flags. Give us a better chance to kill eachother and iam sure it will increase percent of raids.

 

1. So leaving one alliance and joining another will cost you between 5 and 10 THOUSAND fuel? It only costs 1,000 to make your own.

2. A time restriction would work here. 1 week seems fair enough to ensure players can't do that in the space of a War

3. Why would this happen? If someone is willing to put the time, effort and money into maintaining several accounts, isn't that good for the Developers? What if they have "alts" on the different servers? 

4. Vintages were made vintage for a reason. They are not going to be re-introduced http://forum.conarti...o-day/?p=108441

5. More uniques would not mean more raiders. How did you come to that conclusion?


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#54
314R

314R
  • 95 posts

One ( or five ) more thing...

 

1. You must restrict merging alliances and switch from one to another from round to round ( because the risks of swaping flags etc. )

Switching alliances must cost 5 to 10K fuel ( or more, i dont care )

 

Yeah.. Maybe I'm the only "poor" player here.. but i'm very often around 1K fuel... 5k fuel "(or more)" for this is just stupid.

An alliance is a team you join to have fun.. not to be emprisonned for the rest of your life.
 


An other thing, somebody said "what happen if you make points, and then leave the alliance?" I didn't see any answer. (maybe I scrolled too fast :D )
We are supposed to get the war box in that case, and that would be an alternative to WF.


Last thing. There is an exploit with melee being invincible while suppressed or something like this...

OK BUT when somebody has a compound so bad that you can almost reach the flag without being seen by its survivors, and then grab the flag with the smoke, I think this should be still allowed.


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#55
Ivan

Ivan
  • 571 posts

Yea thinking about that WF change again,can only completely agree with expat..it will reduce the number of people participating. People wont fight even if they are unsure about how much they will be able to be online during the week. So WF will come as a first thought and action at the start of every round. Does that sound good?


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#56
chenfamily1

chenfamily1
  • 10 posts

Con this should be added with this change or soon afterwards as well. I know that you know that many people have used the re-enlisting tactic before during wars. They put up a bunch of points and then just leave the alliance and immediately join back so that they don't have to equip the WF or fear people raiding them for points and they don't bleed points from their alliance. Leaving the alliance for enlisting should face the same penalties in my opinion.

 

This +1.

 

I think I see more people take the first several days off of the war until tasks are done and then enter it than i see people putting on the flag towards the end. I've seen people do it so that they can focus on tasks first and because the war starts during the week so that they keep their WF on during the work week and then put up a couple hundred points on Saturday and Sunday. 

 

There are also some that have many alts and will WF an alt and not use him at all but will bring him out on the last day or 2 if the war is close and they can use those extra points. 

 

So, I'm with those that agree that a WF at all during a war round for a raider is essentially the same thing whether the first part of the week or the latter. I'm not against someone using a WF but using it at the beginning or the end is the same thing. 

But what if they score 50-150 points then leave the alliance and rejoin or just leave they still get the reward but cant be targeted for points if this is the case i will score my points and leave an alliance so i never have to worry about WF.


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#57
justinsr316

justinsr316
  • 854 posts

But what if they score 50-150 points then leave the alliance and rejoin or just leave they still get the reward but cant be targeted for points if this is the case i will score my points and leave an alliance so i never have to worry about WF.

Exactly my point. That's how they look at it as well and is why I think it should suffer the exact same penalty as if they equip the WF after scoring points. 


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#58
Ghost Recon

Ghost Recon
  • 566 posts

I hope that white flag bug gets fixed soon.


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#59
Buue

Buue
  • 657 posts

Yeah.. Maybe I'm the only "poor" player here.. but i'm very often around 1K fuel... 5k fuel "(or more)" for this is just stupid.
An alliance is a team you join to have fun.. not to be emprisonned for the rest of your life.


An other thing, somebody said "what happen if you make points, and then leave the alliance?" I didn't see any answer. (maybe I scrolled too fast :D )
We are supposed to get the war box in that case, and that would be an alternative to WF.


Last thing. There is an exploit with melee being invincible while suppressed or something like this...
OK BUT when somebody has a compound so bad that you can almost reach the flag without being seen by its survivors, and then grab the flag with the smoke, I think this should be still allowed.


You think you are poor? I always stay below the 150 fuel range, I only got up to 300 because of the prem boxes, right now I have 55 fuel could have nore but got prem keys and el diablo.
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#60
NorHawk

NorHawk
  • 83 posts

+1 mr Con :)

I like these new changes! It should make more targets!

But... my 2 cents for protection and with my fellow L1N members as well, 4 hrs MAX protection if 10 guys down!

12 hrs for not killing or breaking anything is way too long, but lets war this round and see how it goes!

 

Thx for making a better game :)

 

Chris


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