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Second Wave - Item Discussion


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#41
Scrub McLordington LXIX

Scrub McLordington LXIX
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Out of curiousity, will HERC start using these new weapons they've made? Last few times i was on the island, they were still using those Buffed MP7s, HERC-S3s and Chainsaw Shotguns?

 

And is there any ETA on when trading will start up for the new stuff? Purples are being recycled by people as I type this D:


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#42
Ivan

Ivan
  • 555 posts

Big Smoke timer could be a little longer too, agreed. I'll have a play around and see where I end up.

 

Actually its perfect for the use it has.

Use of big/short smoke is to smoke the area where you need to be to start engagement and then as quickly as possible start that engagement. 10 seconds is more than enough to position yourself.

Thats the use of it on the island.

 

In PvP you want to smoke your position to heal yourself and resume fighting. Time is not of essence there because those kind of raids end very fast, but there also 10 seconds is more than enough. (if not you can continue using your normal smoke grenades)

 

Also in PvP big/short smoke is very useful when moving into closer cover. And in those cases you want the shortest duration possible,that is why you would prefer that big/short smoke over the normal one.


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#43
aurara

aurara
  • 88 posts

I waited till I picked up a few of the new Uni's before posting:

 

http://assets-cloud....nal/3467261.jpg

 

Scavenger Vest - Nice vest for what it does.  The Explosion Reduction knocks my Scavenger to about a quarter health when running over a Herc Mine without too much of a speed reduction.  Allows me to run my Scavenger around the board solo looting on the Island.  Though, I'll probably never use it because I prefer using a reload item in that slot in combo with the shotgun.  I see it being very helpful for flag grabbing.

 

http://assets-cloud....nal/3467260.jpg

 

Love the way it looks.  I think the speed reduction will prevent me from using it on the Island.  For raiding and compound defense, I think it serves a good purpose.  Should it be allowed to increase reload time on Bows, because it currently does (I hope that it will not be changed)?

 

http://assets-cloud....nal/3467262.jpg

 

Perfect for a Pistol.  Low ammo cost with good damage for running manuals or autos.  I don't think it'll see Island use, but I like it for the level <50 runs.


Edited by aurara, 07 December 2015 - 04:08 PM.

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#44
JCBecks

JCBecks
  • 271 posts

I hear you guys on the Engineer armor, I'll look at replacing it with another base stat that's a bit more useful other than trap disarming. Keep forgetting that the skill is maxed out by the time you encounter these armors.

 

I think of EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) teams in combat - the guys disarming the traps should have maximum explosion protection by default.

 

d49c012b6af24980a546bbf79e62b859.png


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#45
FLoor

FLoor
  • 143 posts

OK so first of all the new things look AMAZING!

They sound really cool for the most part, and the XM8 looking thing and the shotty have some REAL potential (especially rangewise - 40+ range on max range shotty with slugs)

On the nerf for the RPKs, they still have pretty good range... not complaining at all :D my rangeless rpk went from 457 to 508 dps ;3

Armors have good potential but most that i've gotten/seen are trash lol.

-Nich


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#46
HeliosDenton

HeliosDenton
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JCBecks, on 08 Dec 2015 - 03:40, said:
I think of EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) teams in combat - the guys disarming the traps should have maximum explosion protection by default.


Max explosion protection by default is overkill, but I agree it should have slightly better explosion protection by default than other Island armors, defusing explosive is what engineers do anyway.

Scout Armor - the most disappointing one. 40% movement speed reduction hurts more on the scout than any other class, not worth the protection they offer. Which would you prefer - move quickly into cover and take less bullets, or move much slower and take much more bullets?

Medic Armor - basically pre-Island armor plus a First Aid Kit. Nothing to complain about, not much surprise either.

Scavenger Armor - kinda hard to use, honestly. At this level they already scavenge fast enough without any bonus, and the most useful bonus for them would be movement speed because in order to loot the containers they need to run around A LOT MORE than any other classes (who just sit on their lazy butt and shoot at stuff). In case of Island raid there are also mines to worry about, but that's why you bring scout and engineer.

Never used Combat Armor since my fighters are all machine gunners, but I noticed something interesting - the "Lightweight" variant of Combat Armor actually REDUCE your ballistic resistance by 10%. You know, an armor that reduce your resistance makes as much sense as a weapon that heals your enemy.

New Grenades - like previous posts said, good but not good enough for the fuel cost. People are reluctant to spend fuel unless there is no other way to do it, like upgrading uniques or acquiring those 50% AC or UCS books. Not to mention spending fuel on one-use items, that's basically throwing your fuel away, literally in case of grenades.

New guns - since I'm not the PvP type, and they all work fine on the zombies expect sometimes the minimal range hurts a little when they got too close. So no comment.

Edited by HeliosDenton, 08 December 2015 - 12:37 PM.

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#47
NeroVirgil

NeroVirgil
  • 28 posts

Con and team

Regarding the new weapons unique drops have to be fixed. I dont have examples to post here now, but the new shotgun unique variants as well as the new assault rifles ( excluding the AK105) drop with horrible stats. They drop with just added hit chance and negative suppression for example or 12%dmg or 10% aps. Those are not stats for uniques. Can you guys have a look at it and have some fixed stats minimum to them?

This problem we had when the island first came out with the new guns.

 

Concluding regarding the new maps i am very satisfied. Yes its kinda more difficult but we will get the hang of it, some sooner some later. I cant stand people who whine like little b***es. It is lvl55 end game stuff it is suppose to be hard!! Where else can you find a challenge in this game? This new update made it more exciting overall.

Thank you team for all the updates keep it up!


Edited by NeroVirgil, 08 December 2015 - 09:03 AM.

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#48
sblkotno

sblkotno
  • 1 posts

Hi Con.

Today i found this one http://i058.radikal....4519e79ef99.png

Unfortunately it have range like rpk and dps like ak - the gun seems to be new, but more frustrating to find that.

This new gun does'nt go comparison with them. Maybe just do the same stats as ak?


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#49
slayerassassin1

slayerassassin1
  • 6 posts

Neat items but was kinda hoping for a tank like full body riot gear suit or a actual bomb suit to disarm bombs with.


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#50
Scrub McLordington LXIX

Scrub McLordington LXIX
  • 1,366 posts

I think of EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) teams in combat - the guys disarming the traps should have maximum explosion protection by default.

 

d49c012b6af24980a546bbf79e62b859.png

 

Comparing purples with "Heavy Ballistic" Prefixes, the Engineering vest seems to have ~10% higher ballistic resistance then the other armors i have.

 

However, the health of an engineer isn't that high so the 10% extra might not be enough to make the Engineer blast-resistant enough.

 

 

 

One thing we're still missing is a Ranged alternative for the Combat armors, as those only improve melee combat, and i'd like to be able to use something else besides those level 28 Shooting vests.


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#51
NightmareRaven

NightmareRaven
  • 106 posts

Yes, Con! I get really excited when i see new shotguns and pistols.


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#52
mtimmins92

mtimmins92
  • 76 posts

new pistol is very good, you can get 1,000 dps with an Ammo mod and Terror Equipped (10% terror) - I am sure it would make even more dps if there was a damage or aps stat, since I am not really one for range stat on a pistol to be fair.

rlwlQuO.png


Edited by mtimmins92, 08 December 2015 - 07:56 PM.

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#53
Tyrone

Tyrone
  • 135 posts

why do you continue to add content to this game while you still have severe problems with existing gameplay (Examples available upon request)? This is very discouraging. Please slow down and fix what you have. I need the ability to start raids without getting stuck "equipping survivors". 15 minute lockouts lose wars here.

Lag and connectivity errors still plague gameplay, though my personal grievance is that pathing seems worse than before the update. I've seen survivors going out of their way to press face-first into zed, when before they had about a 50% chance to go around a single pair of zed.

 

It'd be nice to be able to get the armour before doing the raid on the island. The new fire traps are extremely harsh to those survivors without armour. A scab really needs that gear or is dead making entry level for new players to the island extremely high. I would have liked to see some Blue/Purple variants of the armours that were actually playable drop in uptown. The only armours that trade or anyone bothers to put on are uni's with 70/70/50 so that those that have top tier gear get ahead while those lagging lag further. All the Armours will need an entry level resistance increase and the ability to pick up a wider range of special traits with Uni and rare variants. Lvl 50-55 armours that replace Bandos, and Glasses etc would be nice even if random.

 

Grenades seem too expensive for results. Guns still do the better damage.

So far, I think all the armours are terrible, from the level 40 vests to the 50+ island crap.

 

All the island armors (old and new) are simply not usable on the island itself because they lack explosive and projectile resistance.

Island items not being as good as much lower-level city items. No surprise there.

 

Against HERC, as there is never a need to use explosives against Zeds or Buildings. The Drivehammer gets the job done the fastest against buildings. To throw a grenade into a conflict area you need to be seen and shot. A grenade is always less effective than a good assault weapon IMO. The new grenades don't fix this issue. Thus too expensive to bother with.

 

Smoke is pointless IMO, it allows you to move across to cover but you have to wait for it to dissipate to engage. With so much ground to cover and a timer counting down, you cannot wait for smoke to clear. It might have worked with melee units, but HERC cover HERC so your melee guy will get cut down by that guy in the tower.

I haven't been impressed with the new grenades, but I don't use them very much to start with. I was hoping for some more efficient weapons and pathfixing, but neither seem to be on the horizon.

 

I think recon armor should have a trap spotting boost

Doesn't seem like a bad idea. Fits a lot better than improvised/melee boost, which is about the worst thing you can try to do to a Recon.

 

The new maps look like they need four to five smokes so possibly ten smokes for an Island run.  That means 100 fuel to do the Island.  I think perhaps I shall decline the offer.

Another vote of 'not worth the investment'.

 

so huge new maps, hard to see those laptops, a lot of containers with junk and more mines.

not mention that poor haul quality cuz thats nothing new.

I want to second the "poor haul quality". I think I'd rather drop the "guaranteed unique" in exchange for the possibility of actually getting something worthwhile occasionally.

 

That nade is worth 15 fuel, I'll save it and just shoot you some more.

 

- Probably wont use it ever. I don't use an engineer on a raid because he brings no ability to help its success. A fighter might as well jump on the mine than run back to the medic. The fighter can then still have the superior melee power required to complete the conflict.

- I would have liked to see traits like one or more of: extra Improvised damage, extra damage vs buildings, extra short range damage (Like Terror/Hammerfist), extra carry count (+8), +Heal ability, +Scavenge speed

- This topic really has my game design tick going crazy to want to redo all these for proper purpose.

- Conclusion... Its just Std Raid Armour, but only my leader can use it.

 

- The Hit chance buff is pointless

- Does not appear to splash 

 

I really wish there was a mechanical reason for one weapon type over another.

Like increased crit multiplier for snipe effects, and splash for shotguns, and 3shot quicker aim for assault rifles, and  quicker engagement for SMGs and melee/pistol combos and offhand ability for pistols/knives etc

Tools have meaning when they have particular purpose. If everything is a hammer you just use the most effective one and the rest are pointless decoration.

I agree that it would be nice if there was a distinctive reason for more things. Armours are useless unless they're capped, as DPS is worth more than almost anything. That the new maps require us to get shot up by HERC is only insulting.

 

Scavenger Vest - Nice vest for what it does.  The Explosion Reduction knocks my Scavenger to about a quarter health when running over a Herc Mine without too much of a speed reduction.  Allows me to run my Scavenger around the board solo looting on the Island.  Though, I'll probably never use it because I prefer using a reload item in that slot in combo with the shotgun.

 

Perfect for a Pistol.  Low ammo cost with good damage for running manuals or autos.  I don't think it'll see Island use, but I like it for the level <50 runs.

I haven't found the pistol (and hate the pathing and other bugs like the game failing to render HERC, so I have invisible enemies in addition to needing truckloads of uni crap to do well), but I'm not impressed with anything else I'm seeing.

 

I agree it should have slightly better explosion protection by default than other Island armors, defusing explosive is what engineers do anyway.

Scavenger Armor - kinda hard to use, honestly. At this level they already scavenge fast enough without any bonus, and the most useful bonus for them would be movement speed because in order to loot the containers they need to run around A LOT MORE than any other classes. In case of Island raid there are also mines to worry about, but that's why you bring scout and engineer.

Never used Combat Armor since my fighters are all machine gunners, but I noticed something interesting - the "Lightweight" variant of Combat Armor actually REDUCE your ballistic resistance by 10%. You know, an armor that reduce your resistance makes as much sense as a weapon that heals your enemy.

New guns - since I'm not the PvP type, and they all work fine on the zombies expect sometimes the minimal range hurts a little when they got too close. So no comment.

I don't like the minimal range on the guns, but that's a maintain since before. Still don't like the island so far, but maybe after leveling everybody up to 55 it'll feel less like a turkey shoot where my survivors are the turkeys. I didn't start playing this game because I needed more PvP, and the island is over-canted in that direction.

 

And since it needs to be said again: when can we get the pathing problems fixed?


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#54
Ronan

Ronan
  • 210 posts

Spoiler

I like the new assault rifle, its range won't beat its alternative, but it has no minimal effective range. The one I got from a haul makes the island far more easier. The smg is decent, just decent. For the armors, it really depends on the stats, the one I got is excellent for a melee scavenger (sadly I bring no scavenger on the island), but my engineer armors are not that good.

 

I also like the new pistols, it has a good range for this kind of weapon, even beats some smgs.


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#55
Rainwater

Rainwater
  • 86 posts

The recon armor with an msr equipped only seems good for home defense since this happens with both equipped.


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#56
Scrub McLordington LXIX

Scrub McLordington LXIX
  • 1,366 posts

Totally semi-related weapon discussion note:

 

Can you change what the "Quality" Prefix does for melee weapons?

 

Extra Hit Chance on something that's already 99% by default is completely pointless.


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#57
Con

Con
  • 4,054 posts

Totally semi-related weapon discussion note:

 

Can you change what the "Quality" Prefix does for melee weapons?

 

Extra Hit Chance on something that's already 99% by default is completely pointless.

 

Not without breaking things. There was a time early in development when we were looking to have melee misses. Thought it was stupid, so we removed it. Quality is a legacy of that.



#58
Scrub McLordington LXIX

Scrub McLordington LXIX
  • 1,366 posts

Not without breaking things. There was a time early in development when we were looking to have melee misses. Thought it was stupid, so we removed it. Quality is a legacy of that.

 

Interesting, didn't know that, I guess it's okay to leave it like this.


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#59
mnau619

mnau619
  • 4 posts

My biggest issue with the new update so far s the sheer number of metal doors in some of the new maps. Unless you have a melee, it's almost impossible to make it through the map in the time allotted with the number of HERC present. This makes melee disproportionately valuable to a raid, in my mind, and restricts one's ability to construct a balanced raid group that can handle Zeds or HERC. 

 

Other than that one issue, I am loving the new update. the new maps really force you to reconsider tactics, especially with having to flank/angle HERC positions.


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#60
Con

Con
  • 4,054 posts

I love that you guys complain about the fuel cost of making grenades when you literally have thousands of free fuel.  :D

 

 

My biggest issue with the new update so far s the sheer number of metal doors in some of the new maps. Unless you have a melee, it's almost impossible to make it through the map in the time allotted with the number of HERC present. This makes melee disproportionately valuable to a raid, in my mind, and restricts one's ability to construct a balanced raid group that can handle Zeds or HERC. 

 

Other than that one issue, I am loving the new update. the new maps really force you to reconsider tactics, especially with having to flank/angle HERC positions.

 

This is an item discussion thread. Feel free to post this over in the other thread. Use a melee guy or bring explosives, pretty simple.