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Alliances War Changes - Early 2016

alliances wars points

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#21
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

ok but i dont understand how will work that with a good Deff and a Bad Deff.I was Raidet the last Time 7 times 3 times from the same Player but all Raids was only with 1 or 2 Surv so i win them all.That mean with the new Points system im worth much more points even that im not a Raider at the end only why some Weak player try to att again and again.And even there i see a problems with multi acc if i have 2 Acc that are near the same level i chose 1 weak Player and att him 10 Times but i dont take his Banner so he are worth much more points and then i get the points with the other Acc.

 

If you were attacked multiple times like you were described then you would technically become worth more points as you would appear to be a good defender.

 

With the new system though one person cannot elect to keep attacking you over and over.  They can only attack you if you appear on their list, and if you have recently been attacked you are less likely to be on anyone's list.

 

This is the same reason that will make it hard for people with alts to try an manipulate points - they can't easily select an alt to attack



#22
Mad Martin

Mad Martin
  • 7 posts

With the new system though one person cannot elect to keep attacking you over and over.  They can only attack you if you appear on their list, and if you have recently been attacked you are less likely to be on anyone's list.

ok but for how long im not on the list of other Players?And if im worth more points i will get Att much more times with time and with every Deff where i can hold my Flag more and more Player will Att me.Over time it can become real expensive then to Defend my Flag.

On the other side now if i want to Raid how will this work you give me 20 Possible Targets that i can Att but what is if i don't like the Targets?How much time i must Wait to get new Targets?

Oh and its not easy then for the Top Allis to avoid Att?They don't Deff there Flag so they loose Points and no one will Att them any more.So they even don't need to spent time to get repair and medical stuff and can much more focus on Raid only.


Edited by Mad Martin, 11 January 2016 - 10:58 AM.

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#23
Furryicecubes

Furryicecubes
  • 144 posts

This looks on the surface to be an excellent change, it expands the pool of potential targets (no more of a drop off after about rank 4 on Kong), it stops people having to trawl the list for targets, it rewards people who are able to breach better defences.

 

The only downside I can see is that it makes teenage alts supremely important. The number of targets between 12 - 25 will be insanely high.


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#24
NorHawk

NorHawk
  • 83 posts

Last year we announced some potential changes to the wars that we thought may help make things better.

 

The first of these changes will be coming in early 2016.

 

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New War Targets List

 

We are adding a new "Individual" targets list to the War tab.  This list will show up a selection of possible targets that are within your level range and don't have protection or any other form of lockout.  The idea is that this list will remove the requirement to go searching through pages and pages of alliances looking for potential targets.

 

The potential targets are generated from a list of every player that is currently in an alliance and does not have protection.  It will be weighted so that those players that have not been attacked in a while will be pushed to the top.

 

The "Alliance" based targets list will remain unchanged for now.  We see no reason to remove it at the moment.

 

AllianceIndividualsCropped.jpg

 

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New Points System

 

Because the new target list returns people from every possible alliance the old method of calculating a score based off the alliance ranks will not work (most targets would be worth 1)

 

What we are planning to do is have every target worth 10 base points.  There will be up to 10 extra bonus points available based on how good a defender the target appears to be.  (we are basing this off there defensive win/loss ratio)

 

This system may need to be tweaked once the system is in action, but we think that this is a good place to start.

 

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New Rules

 

Because all targets are going to be worth a set base amount we realised some less honest players would probably be tempted to try and exploit this via the use of alts or by using friends they have in the neighbourhood.  

 

To combat this all alliance matches will now need to be started from the Alliance Wars tab.  Any other raids will be worth no alliance points.

 

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Whilst I'm sure there will be some small teething issues whilst we figure out the scoring and the award levels I am confident that this will go a long way to improving the hunt for targets.

 


 


A W E S O M E !

Thx Con and dev team, this has been long awaited :) Then its really worth it to buy fuel packages from now on ;)

The sooner this is implemented, the better! Again a huge thx!

 

/Chris


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#25
Furryicecubes

Furryicecubes
  • 144 posts

Hmm actually I think that most "teenage alts" are to be found in high ranked alliances, so they're targets already. I think that the new target system will bring more targets for the high lvl players such as myself who don't raid on 5 alts.

 

The problem isn't that these teenage alts will become targets, they are pretty much OP so out of most peoples target zone. 

 

The problem is the number of points they will be able to farm, e.g. (non fuel option)

 

Running 3 raiding teams (3-3-4) you can hit 3 people every 2 hours, most of the heavy raiders I've know raid for at least 14 hours a day. This gives 7 x 3 = 21 raids per day.

 

Now assuming you win 80% of your raids you're suddenly able to score 21 x 0.8 x 10 = 168 points as a minimum per day. That's before rushing any teams around.

 

Personally I think you could well see alts scoring in the realms of 300 plus points a day, per alt.

 

Whilst this is good for those that are heavy raiders, it will only widen the gap between the haves, and the have nots.

 

edit : mathmatics fail.


Edited by Furryicecubes, 11 January 2016 - 12:48 PM.

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#26
Ender07

Ender07
  • 15 posts

For the last month or so I have been collecting extra alliance stats about players.  One of them is the results from the last X number of alliance attacks you have had.  I divide the number of times you haven't had your flag stolen by the number of attacks and figure out a percentage.

 

The more times your flag isn't stolen, the more points you will be worth.

I think this will only work for alliances fighting for the top 3 spots. Raiders who are after war reward boxes don't have much incentive to protect their flag. I'm one of the latter ones but I'll probably be worth quite a bit of points because I found it fun to make attackers have to work to get to my flag (also some raiders only go after the fuel gen anyway). As it stands, if I lose too much fuel due to greatly increased number of raids I'll just leave the flag somewhere undefended.


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#27
aurara

aurara
  • 88 posts

Since the new system will be going off of defense ratings, would it be possible for defenders to earn points as well?


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#28
frijolito

frijolito
  • 233 posts

Sounds great for boosting amount of point worthy targets especially on user starved servers like Kong and yahoo. Totally agree with the other points here, just need to be careful with the balance. Many PvE alliances are comfortable in leaving flags around as they are worth no points, so making them a target now could upset them, yet not doing it would doom the PvP aspect. Sounds like your on it though, but its a good thing overall I think, we will just have to keep a eye on the balance of things.

 

Another way alts could be used is if you have lots of low alts that just take easy flags all the time, it would become a numbers game is my only worry. Noob alliances with high numbers of membership and low level players would have an advantage (for numerous reasons, many noobs with easy defenses, low level super alts kicking around, noobs rarley have or can afford WF etc etc) as appose to a older 20 people raiding alliance for example....


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#29
omar_abdallah_1

omar_abdallah_1
  • 121 posts

NICE!!

 

this is very good idea really thanks sev for this idea

 

if i can put +1 for you i will :)


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#30
joeIII

joeIII
  • 429 posts

It is a step in the right direction.  It might be worth noting that it won't be just PvE players giving their flags away though.  The reason to defend during war now is to starve the opponents of high point raids.  With the current system, many low value targets are available.  Thus, as an active raider, being a low value target costs nothing to one's alliance.  It is best to raid hard and defend weak.

 

This can be avoided if a player's defensive score (value as a raid target) is also affected by the number of raid points they scored on attack.  This way regular raiders who choose not to defend will again be giving away more points to opposing alliances.


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#31
Lefty_Grimes

Lefty_Grimes
  • 290 posts

For the last month or so I have been collecting extra alliance stats about players.  One of them is the results from the last X number of alliance attacks you have had.  I divide the number of times you haven't had your flag stolen by the number of attacks and figure out a percentage.

 

The more times your flag isn't stolen, the more points you will be worth.

 

Is this under constant reevaluation? I could easily see that many raiders who are within the top 20 or so ranked alliances are probably very good raiders/defenders themselves, but are just under constant attack by even better raiders. This would effectively make them worth less points than they should be. Considering how it easy it was under the old system to hide in lower ranking alliances while taking a break from the wars, I'm not sure how accurate these numbers will be for those raiders who took a few rounds off during that evaluation month.


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#32
DZplayer

DZplayer
  • 368 posts

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

New Rules

 

Because all targets are going to be worth a set base amount we realised some less honest players would probably be tempted to try and exploit this via the use of alts or by using friends they have in the neighbourhood.  

 

To combat this all alliance matches will now need to be started from the Alliance Wars tab.  Any other raids will be worth no alliance points.

 

So, just a question.

If we attack a bounty target through the bounty window, we would not get any war points.

But if we attack that same target, which came through our alliance war targets, we would get points?


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#33
ruawizard

ruawizard
  • 426 posts

You make a valid point about those non-defending players being worth too many points.  That is something I had not considered for some reason.

 

What I can do is tweak the points formula so that those people sharply drop off in value.  For example, if you think of a players defence ranking being a number from 0 to 10, I could curve the scores like this:

 

0 = 5 pts

1 = 10 pts

...

5 = 15 pts

...

10 = 30 pts

 

This would mean those players that don't defend at all aren't worth much, but they are still there if you are lot on targets.  It would also mean that someone who feeds off easy targets would have to do at least twice as many as someone who goes after someone who at least tries to defend.

 

Also, I can skew the upper scores so that if someone is a really good defender they are worth a lot more points.

 

Let me know if think that is any better.

 

This makes good sense.

 

I think maybe you could also add points for individuals who are scoring a lot (not just defending). If you lower points on bad defenders, and if an alliance were feeling very exploitative, they could place their flags in undefended spots and reap the benefit of being worth very few points.  Adding points for high scorers eliminates that issue. Adding points for scorers also makes the small alliances who only go for war boxes a better target.  For example, I'm currently in a 2-man alliance on AG and can easily get 300 points in a round -- and I'm raided only once or twice per round (this is a weakness of the current system which relies on alliance rank for point value).  If points are lowered for bad defenders, I could leave my flag out and still get 300 without any detriment to me.  Raising points on high scorers ensures they'll get raided if they're actively participating in the war.


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#34
JCBecks

JCBecks
  • 272 posts

This new system will not be perfect, but neither is the current system. Anything that creates higher availability of open targets is welcome by me.


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#35
ruawizard

ruawizard
  • 426 posts

I would also consider adding a bonus for level of defender. Higher level compounds are generally much better defended. There should be some incentive to level up and not make more alts. There's a real danger of this exacerbating the alt wars.


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#36
NeroVirgil

NeroVirgil
  • 33 posts

Are these changes going to be implemented this round ?


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#37
The Wanderer

The Wanderer
  • 63 posts

I would also consider adding a bonus for level of defender. Higher level compounds are generally much better defended. There should be some incentive to level up and not make more alts. There's a real danger of this exacerbating the alt wars.

I totally agree with rua. Raiders tend to make alts when they reach 50+ because of the lack of good quality weapons. True there is the island to hog some of those new LRs but still it takes a long time. A crafted 107 similar to the FAL would be nice so that high level players have the option to try and raid at high levels.


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#38
Ivan

Ivan
  • 571 posts

Change is good because it will obviously give more targets.

Infact there will be so many targets available for each player that the winning alliance will be the one which has the biggest number of paying players. Speeding up raids is kind of a must after this change.

Unless you want to limit that, but i dont expect you would want to do that. Limiting "whales" is almost never a clever thing to do for a game dev.

 

One guy will be worth 10 raiders if he decides to invest say 2000 fuel during one week - to win 500 + 150, but more importantly to have his alliance listed as 1st.

Pretty straight forward Pay2Win. But this is only new maybe on Kong or Yahoo. AG had this situation all the time, although even for them this "one man potential" will be amplified.

 

Only ones who will not like the change are the ones who will feel silly paying 2000 fuel to earn 500, and will refuse to do it. For example, my alliance is mostly non freemium players so I am just talking from our perspective of things. We were able to grab most of the wins during 2015 by not using speed-ups. Highly unlikely that will be possible after this change is implemented.

 

Still think it is a good change due to more targets. Non paying players might have to settle for 2nd or 3rd or just warboxes and enjoy raiding whenever they feel like it (cause targets always available).


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#39
The Wanderer

The Wanderer
  • 63 posts
I once saw a raid video on youtube but i don't know what server the video was made (probably AG/FB) and i saw the war points on a alliance there and i was shocked! They reach 5k+ and the number of raiders are far too many! I think all of them are raiding for points! The way i forsee it, with the new point system it is most likely that raid alliances will benefit more if they have more raiders because there are more targets.

Due to the abundance of targets, i guess the alliance wars will be based on numbers and not by careful planning and distributing of levels.

Anoher thing here is whoever starts first will have the point advantage because you don't have to wait for oher alliances to score big just to get big points.

Edited by The Wanderer, 11 January 2016 - 05:14 PM.

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#40
Lancealot

Lancealot
  • 44 posts

You make a valid point about those non-defending players being worth too many points.  That is something I had not considered for some reason.

 

What I can do is tweak the points formula so that those people sharply drop off in value.  For example, if you think of a players defence ranking being a number from 0 to 10, I could curve the scores like this:

 

0 = 5 pts

1 = 10 pts

...

5 = 15 pts

...

10 = 30 pts

 

This would mean those players that don't defend at all aren't worth much, but they are still there if you are lot on targets.  It would also mean that someone who feeds off easy targets would have to do at least twice as many as someone who goes after someone who at least tries to defend.

 

Also, I can skew the upper scores so that if someone is a really good defender they are worth a lot more points.

 

Let me know if think that is any better.

Dev's I think this formula is great. Part of the problem with raiding has always been a lack of targets worth points. I have spent 2 or 3 days of a round without any targets worth points. This formula at least gives more of them. Better 5 or 10 points than zero for days.

Thanks for doing this. What is the time line for putting it into the game?


Edited by Lancealot, 11 January 2016 - 06:00 PM.

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