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Alliances War Changes - Early 2016

alliances wars points

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#41
ACP Tosha

ACP Tosha
  • 2 posts

If i understand this: someone who is too easy to raid will quickly be worth next to nothing, so instead of raising white flags or defending their compounds, many might try to give away their flags to whoever comes first?

Here are some possible suggestions for solutions:

1. Check number of attackers and defenders, and: (defender losing points)
1.a: if there are many defenders and 1 or 2 att., and raid is not successful - it should improve defender's rating, but only slightly.
1.b: in same case, but with flag captured, defender should lose war points from his score and alliance score for giving away his flag too easily, and especially if none of defenders were downed, and none of the cades and stuff were broken in process -- or in other words: no effort was made to defend the flag.
1.c: defenders who leave their base without protection too often should also lose points when giving easy points to raiders from other alliances. (applies to 2 or less defenders in base)
1.d: if attacker can simply walk  through defender's pound unhindered, take some more points from defender (ie: attacker entered at one side of map, went into barracks, and left map on opposite side) and give them to attacker

 

2. Check effort made to defend and if reasonable effort was made to defend: (give some points to defender)
2.a: successful defence should give defender... say 50% of points that attacker would score if raid was successful?

2.b: to avoid lame and half hearted raid attempts make longer return times after raids in which attacker pulled out without having any attackers downed by defence and strip them of the number of points that are given to defender.

2.c: successful defence if there are 2-3 defenders and 4-5 attackers should bring even more points to defender.  

3. Additionally motivate attacker: (extra points for secondary tasks)
3.1: Walking all over the place as explained above should take some points from defender and give to attacker. 
3.2: If possible trough engine, observe where the best equipped defender is (gun with biggest DPS), and make nearest cade or storage next to him a secondary target for attacker. That way if attacker can get to that point and destroy it or loot it, he gets extra points, and you ensure that he is motivated not only to take give-away flags that are placed near the deployment zone (which would not be worth much), but also to into the thick of the battle to get more points. 

So these are some ideas thrown in at random, but think about them. ;0)


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#42
Prpich25

Prpich25
  • 242 posts

As a heavy PvE player. This is good. Let PvP players have this, they need it. For you high lvl PvE players, WF the fk up or take the chance.


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#43
JagerBomb

JagerBomb
  • 26 posts

For the last month or so I have been collecting extra alliance stats about players.  One of them is the results from the last X number of alliance attacks you have had.  I divide the number of times you haven't had your flag stolen by the number of attacks and figure out a percentage.

 

The more times your flag isn't stolen, the more points you will be worth.

Okay, NOW the whole "Not recording my successful defenses" becomes very relevant. I have a topic about this with a video in the tech support thread.  And what about a cumulative points system? i.e.  A captured flag is 5 points, each downed defender is 1 point, and each looted resource is 1 point? Adversely, failed raids or abandoned raids could COST a potential raider 5 war points that are awarded to the defender for a successful defense of their compound. Just a thought.


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#44
DeusAderit

DeusAderit
  • 25 posts

Okay, NOW the whole "Not recording my successful defenses" becomes very relevant. I have a topic about this with a video in the tech support thread.  And what about a cumulative points system? i.e.  A captured flag is 5 points, each downed defender is 1 point, and each looted resource is 1 point? Adversely, failed raids or abandoned raids could COST a potential raider 5 war points that are awarded to the defender for a successful defense of their compound. Just a thought.

Remove resources being worth points, increase flag value based upon alliance success, increase defender value based upon personal skill.

 

Suddenly teamwork in high-ranking alliances becomes even more important, and I will raid 'pounds higher than me because kills are worth a few points even if I don't get the flag.

 

And I really like the idea of winning points by defending successfully...

 

Great ideas all around.  I'm excited to raid with the new system.  :)


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#45
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

I like the idea of adding a value to the score based on how successful the player is at raiding.  I can calculate a value based off their attack history and add that to the final score.  Players that are actively out there raiding and scoring points will have their value creep back up a bit.

 

I think this would go some way to preventing the active players from giving up their flag too easily because they will be worth more than the minimum points. 

 

I'll have a look into this whilst I am implementing the new scoring curve I mentioned earlier.



#46
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

So, just a question.

If we attack a bounty target through the bounty window, we would not get any war points.

But if we attack that same target, which came through our alliance war targets, we would get points?

 

Yes.

 

if you attack a person through the bounty system it will not be considered part of the wars.

 

If you do attack someone through the targets list and they have a bounty, the bounty will still be available.



#47
Kael_Hate

Kael_Hate
  • 20 posts

Seems like this whole engine should have been like the real game "capture the flag". A flag is a finite thing you hold not a scoring zone. Once you have stolen a flag you then have to hold it so it is not stolen back. At the end of the game he who holds the most flags is the winner. Arbitrary points values for flag stealing imbalances the game where there should be a finite number of points or flags period.  

 

This game style:

- stops friends "Flag Swapping" as there is no net gain.

- forces players to defend their spoils

- forces teams to contest each other rather than race to rape the little guys over and over for points.

 

I don't participate in PvP so this is merely game observation. 

I do think players might be more active in pvp if the war was actually about holding something and wasn't just a race to grind out as many points as possible.


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#48
Max1144

Max1144
  • 416 posts

Sounds like a great idea and exactly what raiding community needs which is MORE TARGETS. People in top alliances have sometimes spent more time on looking for targets then raiding itself. This is the anwer as it supplies a list of targets ready to attack without the need of browsing many pages of alliances.

 

Ten points per targets + additional 10 sounds like a good value. One thing You should be aware of is that for top 3 ten points is really a lot. Starting from second page of alliances all they can get is usually 7 so they will naturally pick the higher points.

 

Not being able to get points thru the neighbours list is really a minor drawback. For me it was always the source of fuel targets and the chance of getting war points in the proces was close to zero.

 

One thing I am a bit concered about is that we will get a wave of people complaining about suddenly being raided. The people that have been sitting cozy in alliances ranked 50+ and were never trashed. ( Yes, I am looking at You Wolfy) As always the reply will be get "Get the whiteflag" :)

 

Lastly I am really glad to see some of my ideas implemented in one form or another:

 

http://forum.conarti...additional-tab/

 

"Main idea behind it is to supply raiders with endless list of attackable low-point targets."

 

And that is exactly what raiders will get with this update :)


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#49
JagerBomb

JagerBomb
  • 26 posts

Remove resources being worth points, increase flag value based upon alliance success, increase defender value based upon personal skill.

 

Suddenly teamwork in high-ranking alliances becomes even more important, and I will raid 'pounds higher than me because kills are worth a few points even if I don't get the flag.

 

And I really like the idea of winning points by defending successfully...

 

Great ideas all around.  I'm excited to raid with the new system.  :)

Yeah, I like the idea of being awarded a few points for successfully defended pounds too. I'm just curious from a programming point of view how easy or ridiculously hard that may be to set up. I mean, setting up a GOOD defense is seriously an"art" with a LOT of variables to consider and chose from. Personally I have literally spent DAYS setting up different defenses and then doing practice raids on them just to teach myself how to get into them and learn different attack angles and raiding tactics that are effective on the various popular defense set ups. A small reward like some war points for our effort would be cool. :)  I'm also excited about the new system! Sounds like it's going to be FUN! 


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#50
GinX

GinX
  • 17 posts

Hope this update will help.

Because browsing thru pages(for hours and ends) to seek available targets and ends with nothing, It "suck the FUN" out of raiding and of the whole game!!


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#51
desighen456

desighen456
  • 10 posts

cool can we expect it this month?

 


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#52
JCBecks

JCBecks
  • 272 posts

I dislike the idea of giving points for raiding resource containers.  For players like myself with DMU, I take the flag, fuel and ammo, then leave everything else alone. If I don't need the resources, I don't take it. I don't want to feel "forced" to raid containers just to get max points for the raid.


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#53
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

cool can we expect it this month?

 

If not this month then it will be the first week of next month.  I have most of this working already.  I just want to implement a couple of the ideas people have posted here first, then do some testing.



#54
MW3ProPiper

MW3ProPiper
  • 817 posts

Sounds great, the target update that we've been waiting for!

 

Now to put it in action and tweak some minor flaws in it so that we can find more targets and get a raiding system that works.

Once it works, then we can focus on incentives to get more people to raid (higher raiding population will make the system run more smoothly) and make raiding a more integral part of the game.

 

There is much potential.


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#55
ackNnak

ackNnak
  • 52 posts

Con, what about non-raiding alliances?  Forcing a minimum point value means that every alliance member is a potential target.  As is works now, we do not allow members to raid for WPS because of this very reason.  If we have no WPS then raiding any member is of little to no value.  If any member does take a flag then the entire alliance becomes a potential target.  A minimum point value including scaling points for defense etc. will effectively create the same situation.


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#56
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

Con, what about non-raiding alliances?  Forcing a minimum point value means that every alliance member is a potential target.  As is works now, we do not allow members to raid for WPS because of this very reason.  If we have no WPS then raiding any member is of little to no value.  If any member does take a flag then the entire alliance becomes a potential target.  A minimum point value including scaling points for defense etc. will effectively create the same situation.

 

The short answer to this is that there is a built in bias in the system that tries to return players that have been actively raiding in the last x number of rounds. 

 

The longer answer is that yes, you will be worth at least 5~10 points.   The server that generates the list of possible targets tries to limit its results to players that have been active in the last few rounds.  If it can find enough targets, non raiders won't be considered. 

 

However, if there aren't enough targets found for some reason the server searches again, this time including less active players.

 

So, you may be attacked more, but you should be bombarded.

 

You also have the option of equipping the white flag as well.



#57
Mad Martin

Mad Martin
  • 7 posts
You also have the option of equipping the white flag as well.
That is what i think come out at the end all Player that dont want Raid or get Raidet must buy the Book and for low level that dont play for long it will be a Pain as they dont know if spent Money in the Game or not.On the other side i see always the Problem with the Raiding Allis they will give at the end all there Flags for free away so they dont need to Deff and become worth near nothing with time.But any lower ranked Alli will get much more worth as they will get much more Att and most of the time from Player that dont know realy to raid so the Deff rate will go into the stars until some Top Raider come and Trash them for the good amount of points.The only way i see to avoid that is to dismantle the entire deff and place even my Flag near the Streets if i dont want spent the money for the Book.So give the Flag Deff any sense with points if not is more a Punish for Player to hold the Flag and to work on there Deff

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#58
Lanceyy

Lanceyy
  • 222 posts

You also have the option of equipping the white flag as well.
That is what i think come out at the end all Player that dont want Raid or get Raidet must buy the Book and for low level that dont play for long it will be a Pain as they dont know if spent Money in the Game or not.

 

 

 

I dont think thats much of an issue since there are plenty of targets at low lvl. So since people not raiding only appear on the list if no other targets are available, they will very rarely get raided or not at all.

And at lvl 50+ it isnt that hard to get the fuel or keys for WF book....


Edited by Lanceyy, 13 January 2016 - 12:28 PM.

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#59
Sev

Sev
  • 553 posts

You also have the option of equipping the white flag as well.
That is what i think come out at the end all Player that dont want Raid or get Raidet must buy the Book and for low level that dont play for long it will be a Pain as they dont know if spent Money in the Game or not.On the other side i see always the Problem with the Raiding Allis they will give at the end all there Flags for free away so they dont need to Deff and become worth near nothing with time.But any lower ranked Alli will get much more worth as they will get much more Att and most of the time from Player that dont know realy to raid so the Deff rate will go into the stars until some Top Raider come and Trash them for the good amount of points.The only way i see to avoid that is to dismantle the entire deff and place even my Flag near the Streets if i dont want spent the money for the Book.So give the Flag Deff any sense with points if not is more a Punish for Player to hold the Flag and to work on there Deff

 

No, that isn't what will happen.

 

If you aren't launching alliance war raids on other players - as in going to the targets tab in the alliance window and launching an alliance raid) then the most you will ever be worth is 5 pts. Also, after a few rounds you will be much less likely to appear on anyone's target list due to you not being an active player.

 

All those alliances you are talking about that are going to be giving up there flags to lower their points will most likely be active raiders.  They will be worth anywhere up to about 15 pts depending on how good they are.  They will also be more likely to appear on other people's lists.

 

Also, if they are an easy target then they will be potentially giving up points to their competitors which a lot of serious alliances won't want to do. 

 

That being said, if something like that does prove to be an issue then there are a few things I can do to help persuade players to change their behaviour - things like making them worth more points, deducting war points or even removing their ability to earn individual bonuses, etc.



#60
Lanceyy

Lanceyy
  • 222 posts

I think all players in top5 ranked alliances should be worth a high amount of points regardless of their defense and raiding stats.

 

This would keep the feeling of fighting against the other top alliances alive and not make the war a flag farming competition.

It would also counteract players messing with their defense and attack stats on purpose, to be worth less points (which doesnt sound very hard to do)

 

It would also be good to add some sort of incentive for people to at least make an effort to defend their flag and not leave their compound empty or place it on the streets. But tbh im not sure how such an incentive could look like :(


Edited by Lanceyy, 13 January 2016 - 12:33 PM.

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