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Elite Infected - Balancing


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#61
tehswordninja

tehswordninja
  • 711 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

Highly dislike. It doesn't make sense both canonical-wise and game-wise. It's just kinda broken, here's why:

 

These infected are literally made to be extremely good in melee combat.

 

And the only good way of dropping them is with guns. Not melee.

 

So we get infected who are immune to our only good method of dealing with them. I mean, that's not that bad, until you realize:

A: They have pretty decent health

B: They take like 4 damage per hit from your melee

C: They do insane dps in MELEE range.

 

I'm fine with 100% melee res, or even 100% explosive res, but not projectile res.

 

Regardless, I'm loving the update anyways, I hope it gets expanded upon with (MAYBE) herc enemies as well as infected


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#62
Trent_RPD

Trent_RPD
  • 133 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

I toltally dislike it because as it is right now it's really unbalanced

 

you are balancing the projectile immunity in this type of elite as you balance the melee immunity in the rest (if there is any melee immunity, i personally haven't sent my melee to fight any of them to see if they deal damage)

 

i belive both projectile and melee immunity have pretty much the same high hp and high damage, but is not fair because we can deal thousands of damage with guns per second compared to the low amount of damage you can deal with melee.

 

5 guns dealing damage vs 5 melee dealing damage, the difference i'm sure is huge, if you want to keep the immunity in both, you have to lower the hp in the proj immunity considering even 5 melee can't take down an elite with the stats they have atm compared to 5 guns in the same amount of time.

 

you can also increase the hp in the melee immunity ones if you consider the change.

 

My personal requests would be:

 

-Get rid of the proj immunity but double or triple the hp

OR

-Lower the hp and damage so it is actually possible to take it down with 1-2 survivors using melee

-Keep the stats as they are right now, but make them weaker against melee so we can deal more damage to them per hit

 

I really like the challenge but a change must be made to make it less op, i believe we were supossed to rely on high knockback melee weapons and guns to stun and knockback this beast in order to kill it, but due to the ridiculous low damage we deal to this particular elite and the high damage and hp it's pretty much imposible.

 

Thanks for the update btw, this is the must fun i've had with the game in a long time, i'm loving it.


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#63
ISOLAYTORE

ISOLAYTORE
  • 95 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

Is this for the island versions of Elites?

for the record, I've faced 9 Elites so far 8 (4 uniques) successful kills and 1 fail (island rare Herc Riot)

I've only seen 3 types atm, they are mostly Hercs(5) and few Military(3)

 

no complaints


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#64
hotshot85

hotshot85
  • 27 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

 

100% ballistic is fine.

99% melee is fine.

 

having them both on a tanky unit with decent melee attacks is alittle too much.

 

also note that melee endgame weapons are largely inferior compared to ranged. and even with max melee-resist most of 50+ players dont face-tank zeds.


Edited by hotshot85, 17 June 2016 - 02:40 AM.

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#65
longorjames

longorjames
  • 210 posts

1. Lvl 54 forest

2. Riot armor looking

3. Wielding a weapon that looked like the Saw-Ax improvised weapon.

4. Attack range, AoE swing, and Attacks per second. It's ranged seemed like a 4 (too high), even though my survivors were kinda spread apart the zombie could hit all of them, and it hit pretty fast. Lost units who were on the side, even though the main focus of the elite zombie was my tank/fighter.


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#66
longorjames

longorjames
  • 210 posts

I'm fine with 100% melee res, or even 100% explosive res, but not projectile res.

 

Regardless, I'm loving the update anyways, I hope it gets expanded upon with (MAYBE) herc enemies as well as infected

 

Maybe if we used armor piercing rounds like long rifles instead of shot guns, assault rifles, and machine guns they could get past some projectile resistance?  

 

Or add some gear/ammo mods for guns that specialize in shredding through armored targets?


Edited by longorjames, 17 June 2016 - 05:11 AM.

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#67
Lanceyy

Lanceyy
  • 222 posts

Nice Lanceyy. 

 

Looks like the warhammer riot uniques do a lot less damage than the sword/bloodluster ones?  Your guys just have standard 70% resist melee armor, right?

 

lvl51+ 70% melee armor with a bit of health and 10% health from high vis hat.

 

Had one of those sword guys too as first one and he did more damage


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#68
Max1144

Max1144
  • 416 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

 

I would like to be able to kill it with guns.


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#69
The Insane Wood Fairy

The Insane Wood Fairy
  • 124 posts

100% proj res? No

95% Sure

 

If it makes it too easy just increase HP


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#70
hershelwise

hershelwise
  • 300 posts

I think 100% resistance anything is not a good idea for balance. There is a reason it was lowered to 70% for us, too. For the Elites 90% seems fair, because it is 5 on 1 match anyway :D Keep the damage and APS as is, that makes it challenging.

 

I haven't yet failed any of the Elites but have been really vary of doing the Island since the Elites were announced. I think I have ran the Island once since then. I guess I'm waiting out on the balancing on the Elites before I start doing the Island again. Which is a bummer, because I like the HERC maps. Just really don't want to do the Island with two melees. And yes, I know there is a patch that disabled the Elites on the Island, for now anyway. If the Elites are going to stay as 100% projectile/melee resistance I might completely forgo the Island :(


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#71
Cherry

Cherry
  • 792 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

 

I am fine with ballistice resistance ... makes me think about new strategies for missions.

It's nice that we can't do full gun teams for easy peasy missions anymore.

 

I think the melee resistance of these bullet proof uni elite is too high.


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#72
Vahx

Vahx
  • 195 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

Havn't encountered one yet but i do fear them because i usually only take 1 melee in my team.

Unless i do lower level area's for bounties, then i might go with 3 melee and 2 cheap gunners.

 

However for the island, i would not want to encounter them.


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#73
Obabo

Obabo
  • 9 posts

There's a good reason why in Warcraft 3, you couldn't get like 60% or more damage reduction from armor unless your armor values hit 100,000. 

100% ballistic resistance is as good as game over. It's the equivalent of trying to fight Doomsday when you're Batman.


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#74
versus666

versus666
  • 69 posts

1. LV 54 highway and Lv 53 large park.

2. Riot and military green.

3. A grey brown mace or axe for both.

4. Nothing for the later as it was slower than my scavenger and NOT bullet proof but bullet resistant (1-2 effective damages per bullet). Killed it in 2 waves by kitting it while my scout (684 DPS) fired at it. Note that given the resistance any weapon with high APS is probably more effective  against this kind of guy, even more with high knockback. The former was bullet proof and came in a rush, lost my two guys in seconds.

I noticed no problem about kiting like some reported, maybe it was trying to attack it with melee then retreating, then I would understand it doesn't work.

 

 

My two cents about that:

 

First, resistances should never be 100%, Explosive resistance should be very low or inexistant given the limited supply, damage and the difficulty to hit a moving target. Melee and bullet resistances should be 50% base for RARES and then be altered with opposite values: 70% melee and 30% bullets, 90% melee and 10% bullets and so on. For UNIQUES the base could be 70%, caped around 95%. That would avoid the the situations where it cannot be killed by the present survivors.

 

I think there is 4 characteristics that are important: speed, damages, health and APS.

I prefer a system where any super being use a point like mechanism: they randomly 'spend' some points in each characteristic (let's say each with 4 levels), like 5 points for rares and 7 or 8 for uniques. So we can meet some high speed elite Z with good health but low APS and damage, or a high damage and good APS elite Z but very slow and with low health.

I think that simple system, if it can be used, would provide a nice balance. And probably limit the bad situations where they are unkillable or insanely strong.

Don't forget the knockback. At the moment it seems to exist only when there is damage, I think it should always work. Ok for the elite to not be knocked over by explosives but the knockback should be always effective. Maybe reduced to half.

 

Also I only know I killed a RARE elite because it's written on the box I was rewarded with, nowhere else I know. It would be nice to be clearer on that.


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#75
Cherry

Cherry
  • 792 posts

Also I only know I killed a RARE elite because it's written on the box I was rewarded with, nowhere else I know. It would be nice to be clearer on that.

 

Rares got a grey health bar and unis an orange one.

 

What else do you need? o.O


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#76
Max1144

Max1144
  • 416 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

 

To clarify: are we talking about mission-only elite infected or island too?


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#77
Bieroholiker

Bieroholiker
  • 68 posts

Had my first 2 meetings with the unique...
1. LV 53 Warehouse x 2

2. Big Riot  x 2

3. 1 Saw Axe and 1 Pickhammer ( I not sure with this one)

4. Bullets do no damage, melee is not a big help either...Lost none of my men, had to retreat, but not because of weaknes but I was runnig out of time. 1 one came under 1 min min left so I only shot at him wit little efeckt. The 2 one came like 3 min before the end. But until the time was out I could only take half of his health. If I had more time I could have killed him. But considering that you will scavenge and you have to take off other infected too it's to hard to accomplish anything. Either you scavenge and go or you die trying.

 

Edit: just to be clear. It was on to different mission, in the same zone, the same warehouse, but two different days.


Edited by Bieroholiker, 17 June 2016 - 01:17 PM.

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#78
Deadzoner

Deadzoner
  • 75 posts

Well guys, since now almost every reported unis infected have an extremely high resistances to gunfire, melee, knockback and maybe, explosions?? How about we put a cap at the resistance for every unique elite infected?? 

 

My suggestions:

For unique elite infected, all types of resistance up to maximum 80%.

 

Reasons: 

-- Given that our armors all had maximum resistances up to 70%.

-- Given that powerful and high-end unique weapons like rpks, m416s and high dmg shotguns to bring down unique infected still needs quite some time.

-- Given that unique elite infected had a powerful knockback resistance, it's not easy to tank them due to their ability to hit at survivors despite a combined joint team of 3 man team using powerful guns with high knockbacks and 2 man team using powerful melee weapons with high knockbacks.

-- Given that OPed unique infected elite appears in a rush, it might tear down your 5 man survivor team very quickly.


Edited by Deadzoner, 17 June 2016 - 01:47 PM.

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#79
Deadzoner

Deadzoner
  • 75 posts

Ok, new question. 

 

What is the general consensus on the Elites that have 100% ballistic resistance?

Pardon me if I'm not correct Con, 100% ballistic resistance = Elite Infected is invisible. The reason is because given the elite infected is nearly immune to explosive, melee attacks and knockbacks, the elite infected will become unstoppable and if an elite infected with 100% ballistic resistance appears in a mission, I will leave the mission upon seeing one cos it's not worth wasting bullets on the elite infected and knowing all my 5 men team will killed very quickly upon fighting one.


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#80
versus666

versus666
  • 69 posts

Rares got a grey health bar and unis an orange one.

 

What else do you need? o.O

 That information written somewhere clearly. Given rare items are blue-red a grey bar seems a weird choice.

 

Deadzoner : you meant invincible, right ? At first I thought you meant it would be a good feature to the survivors to not even shoot at an bullet proof Z :D


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