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Smoke Breaks Line Of Sight


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#1
Con

Con
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Being unable to target something you can't see is 100% the intended behaviour. Did you notice how the AI survivors you're up against can't target you when you put smoke down?

 

It was a side effect of the last change, yes. 

 

So please, tell me how it legitimately makes sense and for fair gameplay for you to be able to see and target through smoke when the AI cannot. 

 

 



#2
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

we dont ask our survivors to see when under smoke con. what we saying is  we AIM the enemys  and so when smoke clears and our survivors can see ''laughs''  they can hit the defenders WE want. by changing that con ure making close spawn attacks and genereally in range attack impossible. cuz we CANT target the glass/ammo mod guys as fast as we could. and its a game.  why ure turning it into the ''logic'' .. it doesnt make sence  that  5 bows to be able to win 10 lrs or a mix of rpk AK .. but it happens....so..there a lot of things in game that doesnt make sence but its a game and it dont have to make sence to all of it .


Edited by billgfjhghghghgh, 28 July 2016 - 11:05 PM.

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#3
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

we dont ask our survivors to see when under smoke con. what we saying is  we AIM the enemys  and so when smoke clears and our survivors can see ''laughs''  they can hit the defenders WE want. by changing that con ure making close spawn attacks and genereally in range attack impossible. cuz we CANT target the glass/ammo mod guys as fast as we could. and its a game.  why ure turning it into the ''logic'' .. it doesnt make sence  that  5 bows to be able to win 10 lrs or a mix of rpk AK .. but it happens....so..there a lot of things in game that doesnt make sence but its a game and it dont have to make sence to all of it .

 

One more time in coherent language?



#4
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

what u didnt understand?and i'll explain it better. . or try  cuz were not all perfet in english :)


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#5
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

what u didnt understand?and i'll explain it better. . or try  cuz were not all perfet in english :)

 

Sorry, was just a bit hard to read. 

 

So you're saying that defeating spawn traps is impossible without being able pre-aim through smoke?



#6
TanaG

TanaG
  • 134 posts

First of all, Con...if you reply to my post, it would be polite to let me reply back. Second of all, when our posts get more upvotes than any of the others, then we must be saying something right or something that many other players agree with. If you don't like it, then please look into the things that actually upset us. Third of all, you are directly insulting bill above. English is not a native language for many of us. This doesn't mean we're not "being coherent", we're trying our best to make as much sense as we can in a foreign language.


Edited by TanaG, 28 July 2016 - 11:25 PM.

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#7
Salacious

Salacious
  • 68 posts

Being unable to target something you can't see is 100% the intended behaviour. Did you notice how the AI survivors you're up against can't target you when you put smoke down?

 

It was a side effect of the last change, yes. 

 

So please, tell me how it legitimately makes sense and for fair gameplay for you to be able to see and target through smoke when the AI cannot. 

You "saw" already when the fight started and all you're doing is telling your 5 men, "Hey when smoke clears, let's all focus fire that guy in the tower."

 

Your analogy would make sense if our men actually shoot from OUT of the smoke the entire time, but they don't.  All we want is to issue a command, "Hey boys, when smoke clears, everyone get the guy wearing the goofy sunglasses."

 

This isn't an RTS where we can command all 5 men to fire instantly.  We're facing 57 range recons with glasses in towers.  We HAVE to wear armor on attack.  It simply is impossible to field 58 yard range on offense, we can't bring an offensive seige tower with us.  The AI also does not have to issue manual commands when the smoke clears.  All the AI immediately start shooting the nearest attacker.  Sometimes that attacker is wearing armor and can't reach whoever is shooting at him, so it has to be commanded manually.

 

Before this change, we could issue command while inside smoke to all 5 attackers to focus on the weakest men in the tower.  Sometimes that meant using a 40 yard range LR, to shoot up to 50 yards.  As CJ said in the locked thread, when you do this manually after smoke clears, you issue your first command by pressing #1 and teling 1 man to stand up all by himself, this is usually deathf or that first man.  Meanwhile the AI doesn't issue manual commands, they all 7 or 10 start firing immediately after smoke clears, mostly because of their bonus range with tower, or glasses.


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#8
TanaG

TanaG
  • 134 posts

Sorry, was just a bit hard to read. 

 

So you're saying that defeating spawn traps is impossible without being able pre-aim through smoke?

Yes, that's what he's saying! If you deploy in 10 people it is practically impossible, unless you ARE incredibly OP to win unless you aim though smoke (or use bows though I am pretty sure they have to aim too). And what's the point in the end anyway? It completely takes away any control over your attackers in those situations. One of the things that makes PvP exciting is that control that you have over attackers. If all it will come to is just deploy and shoot sorry but it completely ruins the whole thing.


Edited by TanaG, 28 July 2016 - 11:25 PM.

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#9
Lanceyy

Lanceyy
  • 217 posts

Problems i see with this:

 

1. Game balance: Spawn traps are already the hardest and most used defences at lvl55. So far we could target low health survivors while under cover of smoke, which was a good way to reduce the firepower of defenders relatively quickly and thus not die each raid.

If we cant do that anymore people will just put fighters with armors and health clothing in front and guy withs ammo mods and deadeyes in the back and u cant survive that dmg if you cant target the weak defenders.

 

2. Top raiders from S0N and L1N seem to agree that its necessary. Since S0N and L1N dont seem to agree on much these days it is probably a good point :)

 

3. So called melee decoys. People put a player with melee on closest barricade to attackers, and thus he gets targeted first. So far this was for the most part only useful till the first smoke grenade. Under cover of that smoke you could simply target whoever you wanted and make that melee in defense relatively useless.

 

The video i linked shows how after smoke the melee defender gets targeted again after the smoke clears.

 


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#10
Gabacho

Gabacho
  • 144 posts

Please consult more than a few raiders before making changes to raiding that affect everyone.

 

This "fix" is ridiculous -

 

I understand no one likes losing raids or losing flags - especially to lesser weapons & gear.

 

So either lets just make all raids auto raids, (solely depending on DPS, Range & health)  - or allow us to maintain just a little control over our attackers please.


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#11
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

 what  they said ^ IF you spawn into a defence that you get shot by 5-7-10 guys  and your defenders decide to shoot  ( after smoke clears ) the guy with armor... till they kill the armored guy  all my 5 guys will be dead. now if smoke clears and all my 5 guys hit  the tower guy with glasses or the ground guy with glasses. it maybe take 1-4 seconds for him to die. cuz he got glasses. if you take aiming under smoke out then my guys will just hit the armor guy  ( which is mostly used close to spawns ) so kinda impossible /very very very hard to beat spawn traps


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#12
Salacious

Salacious
  • 68 posts

Being unable to target something you can't see is 100% the intended behaviour. Did you notice how the AI survivors you're up against can't target you when you put smoke down?

 

It was a side effect of the last change, yes. 

 

So please, tell me how it legitimately makes sense and for fair gameplay for you to be able to see and target through smoke when the AI cannot. 

You "saw" already when the fight started and all you're doing is telling your 5 men, "Hey when smoke clears, let's all focus fire that guy in the tower."

 

Your analogy would make sense if our men actually shoot from OUT of the smoke the entire time, but they don't.  All we want is to issue a command, "Hey boys, when smoke clears, everyone get the guy wearing the goofy sunglasses."

 

This isn't an RTS where we can command all 5 men to fire instantly.  We're facing 57 range recons with glasses in towers.  We HAVE to wear armor on attack.  It simply is impossible to field 58 yard range on offense, we can't bring an offensive seige tower with us.  The AI also does not have to issue manual commands when the smoke clears.  All the AI immediately start shooting the nearest attacker.  Sometimes that attacker is wearing armor and can't reach whoever is shooting at him, so it has to be commanded manually.

 

Before this change, we could issue command while inside smoke to all 5 attackers to focus on the weakest men in the tower.  Sometimes that meant using a 40 yard range LR, to shoot up to 50 yards.  As CJ said in the locked thread, when you do this manually after smoke clears, you issue your first command by pressing #1 and teling 1 man to stand up all by himself, this is usually deathf or that first man.  Meanwhile the AI doesn't issue manual commands, they all 7 or 10 start firing immediately after smoke clears, mostly because of their bonus range with tower, or glasses.

 

Sorry, was just a bit hard to read. 

 

So you're saying that defeating spawn traps is impossible without being able pre-aim through smoke?

Impossible? no. EXTREMELY difficult, yes.  The AI fires all their shots directly into the nearest guy.  On defense this is achieved with glasses, deadeyes, and tower range bonus.  The attacker simply CANNOT match that range with glasses because he's wearing armor, and gets no tower range bonus.  This usualy means the attacker will have 40-44 yard range and the defenders upwards of 58 yard range.  At 55, a strong defense will not let you start behind any single barricade on the street, without being shot immediately.  My defense, has 3 towers, and 1 deadeye defender that can hit every single spawn point.  Those are the weak points in the defense.  If you cannot target them manually after smoke clears, you will die trying to down the armored figthers on the ground.


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#13
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

All I ask for is a mechanics based discourse without hyperbole and ranting. 

 

So what you're all saying is that it's too hard without it. Cool, we'll look into it. 

 

See, easy :)



#14
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

 we know its easy con thats what we said in the other thread too . just make it like it was for i dont know 4 years already? and all good :)


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#15
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

 we know its easy con thats what we said in the other thread too . just make it like it was for i dont know 4 years already? and all good :)

 

Nah, in the other thread a bunch of you were accusing us of colluding with people to make nefarious changes in order to take over the world or something. 

 

There's something coming to help survivability in raids. Soon.



#16
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

well anyway glad ure   looking  at it . what new infamous-health clothing :P ?


Edited by billgfjhghghghgh, 28 July 2016 - 11:53 PM.

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#17
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

well anyway glad ure  making it like it was. what new infamous-health clothing :P ?

 

I didn't say that, I said I'd look at it. 



#18
billgfjhghghghgh

billgfjhghghghgh
  • 148 posts

ok let us know i guess.


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#19
TanaG

TanaG
  • 134 posts

Con, we're not accusing you of "taking over the world". We are however saying that you tend to listen to only SOME of us instead of ALL of us and that this change, which affects ALL of us was made by listening to just SOME of us! And that this is happening ALL the time and WAY too often and that we find it unfair and frustrating!


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#20
Con

Con
  • 4,110 posts

Con, we're not accusing you of "taking over the world". We are however saying that you tend to listen to only SOME of us instead of ALL of us and that this change, which affects ALL of us was made by listening to just SOME of us! And that this is happening ALL the time and WAY too often and that we find it unfair and frustrating!

 

Tana, honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. If we've made one or two changes because the same people have presented actual bugs that needed fixing, then that's on me. 

 

I'm not as intimately knowledgeable of every player as you think I am. I deal with thousands of players, sorry if I don't remember your names. 

 

The other thing you need to realise is that you guys are about 0.05% of the population of the game in here. So we have to make decisions that aren't just for 100 people, but for hundreds of thousands. So while you might be a representation of the community, you're a very hardcore subset of that community.