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Inventory Space For The 100th Time

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#21
TheOneWhoKnocks

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Con recognized that issue a bit late, and to fix it now would result in exploding inventories due to the amount of extra stacks generated.

I guess what DZplayer mean there was that items would cap out at 9999, that would not generate any extra stacks they would just be capped..

 

The problem with even 9999 cap is that it would still take too much time for the stack to be recycled or incinerated. That wouldnt make any difference, it would still take years or tens of thousands of fuel to get rid of it all.


Edited by TheOneWhoKnocks, 05 August 2016 - 03:03 PM.

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#22
ToneZ

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How about letting players raid's randomly 


Edited by ToneZ, 08 August 2016 - 10:29 PM.

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#23
Zingman

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The size of the stack doesn't really matter (if the stack is large).   A stack of five-hundred thousand (500K) copper wire likely takes up less physical storage space on Con's servers than a single unique assault rifle with six (or more) different stats on it -- so capping stacks at 9999 accomplishes almost nothing.  As I said before, stacks need to capped at absurdly low levels (levels where we can easily manage them) for them to have any impact.  Given the additional changes to crafting and drop rates that's would have to be commiserate with such low levels, it's not really practical.

 

 

Yet, they feel comfortable of adding more stuff that will take a very large amount of storage space.

 

Not quite the same thing.  It costs Con very little to add items to the drop tables, it's when we can't/won't manage our inventories effectively that it becomes a problem.


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#24
joeIII

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Bigger inventories for cash only is a pretty new thing.  And while stuffed inventories has always been a thing, it sure seems to me like its gotten worse lately (research update, clothing update, etc.).

 

It sure seems to me as though inventory limits are one of the main ways CAG has chosen to have us pay for the game.  One can play for free, if one is willing to spend silly amounts of time at the recycler.  (Or not hold on to too many weapons, or...)  But if you want to play hassle free, pony up the $10.  (Or use an older account that bought it for fuel, or settle for the book, or...) 

 

Of course it would be nicer if we could all play the game without hassle and for free.  And if CAG magically got money from somewhere else.  But given that this is the real world, this method of paying for the game seems no worse than other ways to pay for other games.


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#25
DZplayer

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make the incinerator cheaper? AKA 1-3 fuel.

 

That is the price point at which I would use it. I have never used it even once till now.


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#26
TheOneWhoKnocks

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Not quite the same thing.  It costs Con very little to add items to the drop tables, it's when we can't/won't manage our inventories effectively that it becomes a problem.

 

Well yes that was the point, we cant at the moment.


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#27
TheOneWhoKnocks

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Not quite the same thing.  It costs Con very little to add items to the drop tables, it's when we can't/won't manage our inventories effectively that it becomes a problem.

 

Well yes that was the point, we cant at the moment.

 

Bigger inventories for cash only is a pretty new thing.  And while stuffed inventories has always been a thing, it sure seems to me like its gotten worse lately (research update, clothing update, etc.).

 

It sure seems to me as though inventory limits are one of the main ways CAG has chosen to have us pay for the game.  One can play for free, if one is willing to spend silly amounts of time at the recycler.  (Or not hold on to too many weapons, or...)  But if you want to play hassle free, pony up the $10.  (Or use an older account that bought it for fuel, or settle for the book, or...) 

 

Of course it would be nicer if we could all play the game without hassle and for free.  And if CAG magically got money from somewhere else.  But given that this is the real world, this method of paying for the game seems no worse than other ways to pay for other games.

 

Many of us have paid, and even with 1k inventory space its beginning to look bad.

 

Most paying players also want the DMU now that it is available,more so than the inventory upgrade.

But buing DMU means you have no choise but to buy the inventory upgrade also.


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#28
hotshot85

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maybe boost inventory space very slightly via research.

say..

 

using storage research.

each level 1%. up to 10%.

giving f2p players a bonus 50slot if they are willing to invest.


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#29
Troublemaker

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Storage space for items costs Con and the team money for server storage. 

Just some tech stuff.

 

The data are stored in computers in bits - zeros and ones.

8 bits forms 1 byte

2 bytes forms 1 "short word"

 

Lets calculate.

1 byte may store numbers from 0 to 255 (2 in power of 8 minus 1)

1 short word may store numbers from 0 to 65535 (2 in power of 16 minus 1 OR square of 255)

1 long word (2 short words) may store numbers from 0 to 65535*65535 (I don't remember this value, something like 2 or 4 billions)

 

We have approximately about 2000-3000 of different items. Some items are in counts like components. Some in single units like weapons. Then we allocating 1 short word (2 bytes) for the number (ID) of stored item, and 1 long word (4 bytes) for its counter, regardless of type. It means that the 1000 items inventory will cost 60.000 bytes.

One 3" floppy disk stored from 720.000 to 1.440.000 bytes, or from 12 to 24 such inventories.

 

Let there are 1M of players on all sites. It gives 60 billions of bytes or 60 gigabytes. Check the capacity of hard disk in your computer. I highly doubt if it is same or smaller. My mobile and tablet both have SD cards with capacity of 64GB. So, we can't seriously talk about the "costs of storing an inventory".

 

Of course, no one may prevent Con from storing ALL data of the items in every gamer's profile, but it will be a real waste of the computing resources. And I can't imagine that the authors of such successful series of games are too dumb to not optimize the data storage. It is the basics of databases.


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#30
TheOneWhoKnocks

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maybe boost inventory space very slightly via research.

say..

 

using storage research.

each level 1%. up to 10%.

giving f2p players a bonus 50slot if they are willing to invest.

 

This could be a nice little addition but, again, it does not solve the issue.

 

Reasearching to the 10% would also take a lot of notes and fuel and time, this would not help the new players in any shape or form.


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#31
CommSMG

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I mentioned this idea before, but now I guess its relevant again:

Junk that gives the same amount of components/resources when recycled should be stacked together, saving us more space, e.g, Forks and Spoons which recycle into 5 metal each, should be merged together and become "Kitchen Utensils".

Same with components that give the same amount of resources when recycled For example, Triggers and Bolt Assemblies that recycle into 5 metal each become Gun Assemblies or Metal Gun parts. Wooden weapon comps get a separate merged stack. Crafting would require those merged stacks instead of the removed components.

Basically, if we get 30 new comps, then 30 old comps or junk should be removed or merged to give space. There should be a definite maximum amount of available space to be used at our discretion if we finally get components and junk controlled at a stable amount. For every new permanently occurring non-event component or junk that has appeared in this game's history, we should remove/merge an unrelated original comp/junk to account for this.

By merging similar components and junk that recycle into similar amounts of materials, we will have more space in our inventories for our items whilst keeping the amount of component stacks stable, so it never increases and takes up the space dedicated for our weapons, gear, clothing, books and boxes.

If the game and its profit gain were fine before the advent of these new comps, then it will be fine now if older comps and junk are removed/merged to compensate for this.

For me, this solution would save 40-ish inventory slots that were all there before all these crafting kits and research notes appeared. Might not be a lot for DMUsers, or for other people since everyone is different, but every little bit helps, I guess.

 

EDIT: A number was wrong.


Edited by CommSMG, 07 August 2016 - 05:57 PM.

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#32
Zingman

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I mentioned this idea before, but now I guess its relevant again:

Junk that gives the same amount of components/resources when recycled should be stacked together, saving us more space, e.g, Forks and Spoons which recycle into 5 metal each, should be merged together and become "Kitchen Utensils".

Same with components that give the same amount of resources when recycled For example, Triggers and Bolt Assemblies that recycle into 5 metal each become Gun Assemblies or Metal Gun parts. Wooden weapon comps get a separate merged stack. Crafting would require those merged stacks instead of the removed components.

Basically, if we get 30 new comps, then 30 old comps or junk should be removed or merged to give space. There should be a definite maximum amount of available space to be used at our discretion if we finally get components and junk controlled at a stable amount. For every new permanently occurring non-event component or junk that has appeared in this game's history, we should remove/merge an unrelated original comp/junk to account for this.

By merging similar components and junk that recycle into similar amounts of materials, we will have more space in our inventories for our items whilst keeping the amount of component stacks stable, so it never increases and takes up the space dedicated for our weapons, gear, clothing, books and boxes.

If the game and its profit gain were fine before the advent of these new comps, then it will be fine now if older comps and junk are removed/merged to compensate for this.

For me, this solution would save 40-ish inventory slots that were all there before all these crafting kits and research notes appeared. Might not be a lot for DMUsers, or for other people since everyone is different, but every little bit helps, I guess.

 

EDIT: A number was wrong.

 

I like this idea, but I would simplify it even further.

 

Knock everything down to "scrap metal", "wood scrap" and "cloth scrap".   Turn 90ish junk stacks into 3.  That way the lower level players can keep their needed "junk reserves" and everyone would much needed inventory relief.

 

This would necessitate a slight increase in the drop rate of components (since we wouldn't be getting them from junk anymore), but since they'd just be adding to existing stacks that wouldn't matter.   Additionally a couple of junk items would be needed to turn into components (broom handle) or research components (spoons/sheets).

 

But the savings in inventory space would be enormous.


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#33
TheOneWhoKnocks

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But the savings in inventory space would be enormous.

 

Also like the idea but wouldnt go as far as saying that the impact is enormous. Yes every little bit helps but this idea focuses on junk obtained from missions and not the components that are piling up.

 

It can also turn in quite a hassle for some junk because lots of components needed in war like nails and bolts are primarily obtained from recycling specific junk, add the research junk items into this and it can get confusing.

 

It does not address the problem with other components and the space that they are taking from the inventory and the volume that it is happening in.


Edited by TheOneWhoKnocks, 08 August 2016 - 02:22 PM.

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#34
CommSMG

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Also like the idea but wouldnt go as far as saying that the impact is enormous. Yes every little bit helps but this idea focuses on junk obtained from missions and not the components that are piling up.

It can also turn in quite a hassle for some junk because lots of components needed in war like nails and bolts are primarily obtained from recycling specific junk, add the research junk items into this and it can get confusing.

It does not address the problem with other components and the space that they are taking from the inventory and the volume that it is happening in.

Turning close to a hundred junk into three? That's a lot of space left. With 30-40+ crafting kits, research comps, the H-BA comps, the trophies, leaving 87-ish inventory slots free of junk would more than account for this influx of components taking up our space, and give us a few extra slots back.

However, as his idea goes, I believe we can improve on it, I think we can still find normal junk during missions, but it will instantly get converted into components and resources for the "pile" afterwards. For this instant conversion of junk, during missions and in our inventory, we don't have to worry about any losses in components, since everything functions normally, except that they're technically recycled for us.

Edited by CommSMG, 08 August 2016 - 03:59 PM.

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#35
TheOneWhoKnocks

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However, as his idea goes, I believe we can improve on it, I think we can still find normal junk during missions, but it will instantly get converted into components and resources for the "pile" afterwards. For this instant conversion of junk, during missions and in our inventory, we don't have to worry about any losses in components, since everything functions normally, except that they're technically recycled for us.

 

Oh ok so you what you meant was getting them recycled for us.. ok well that is interesting.

 

If this was implemented along with other modifications to the way items can be removed (some components instantly removed in bulk for example) and/or research for more inventory space option then this could work.

 

Now we are getting somewhere :)

 

Lets keep things going people! More suggestions needed!


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#36
Zingman

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Also like the idea but wouldnt go as far as saying that the impact is enormous. Yes every little bit helps but this idea focuses on junk obtained from missions and not the components that are piling up.

 

Freeing up 80-something slots in a 500 slot inventory is a 16-17% increase -- that's huge, especially for something that would be relatively simple (I think).

 

It can also turn in quite a hassle for some junk because lots of components needed in war like nails and bolts are primarily obtained from recycling specific junk, add the research junk items into this and it can get confusing.

 

Hence...

 

This would necessitate a slight increase in the drop rate of components (since we wouldn't be getting them from junk anymore), but since they'd just be adding to existing stacks that wouldn't matter.   Additionally a couple of junk items would be needed to turn into components (broom handle) or research components (spoons/sheets).


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#37
TheOneWhoKnocks

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Zingman, on 08 Aug 2016 - 23:46, said:
Freeing up 80-something slots in a 500 slot inventory is a 16-17% increase -- that's huge, especially for something that would be relatively simple (I think).


Didnt grasp that idea fully the first time around..

Recycling items from missions straight into components and resources and sorting the items into each category by weapon parts and so on.. Yes there might be something here. And Zing, you wouldnt even have to tweak the drop rates on components because nothing would really change, other than that they just go straight into stack. Hell! You could even make the variety of these items much much smaller!


As you suggested Zing, we should take this even further and make it even simpler.
If we want room for all these new items in the future we need drastic measures!

LET US RUN WITH THIS!

Do we really need this many individual "base" items in the first place?

Why would the survivors of an apocalypse keep hundreds of thousands of plastics and triggers and what not? has always bothered me...
And do we really need 4 000 white Accuracy kits, when we have hundreds of green, blue and purple ones?
People do not use the white ones, ever. Or if they do its either by mistake or for lack of knowledge about crafting.



Ive got 152 stacks of components in my inventory.
This amount could be easily combined in the way CommSMG suggested into even as low as lets say 50ish.
You mentioned combining items with same recycling values together and Zing you suggested of making them scrap piles, but what if you combined them so that you would get 10-50 metal, 10-50 wood and 10-50 cloth from each "parts stack" and you could also use them for a specific purpose?

 

Different items like forks and insulation could still even drop and show up in missions but at mission report they would just show as different amounts of "parts" by their combined values.


These stacks could be as easy labelled as

-Crafting Parts (10 and 5 of each resource when recycled, used in crafting weapons and gear)
-Construction Parts (25 of each resource when recycled, used in construction and repairing)
-General Resources (50 of each resource when recycled, used as a resource stock)


Then shave off another 10-15 slots from medical supplies, why we need 5 of each there? This space could be better used in active gear for instance.

All in all

-60-80 inventory space from junk
-maybe even 100 inventory space from base component fusion
-another 10-15 inventory space from meds


That would bring the average remaining free inventory space to around 350-375 slots!
Roughly one third of inventory slots would then go to these basic game items.

Okay.. now that is significant!

And the best part is that the vast number of items would not overwhelm the new player. They would not run into such a huge junk wall and have so many items they dont know if they should keep or throw away. Weapons, gear, books and supply boxes are relatively easy to handle even in very large amounts.


Edited by TheOneWhoKnocks, 09 August 2016 - 06:08 PM.

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#38
Max1144

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Ahh.. inventory space yet again :)

 

I looked through this thread and there are two main problems trying to be solved here:

 

1/ Lack of space

 

For me the balance is about right. It was really nice being able to get extra slots for fuel when it was avaible, but we asked for more space and so we got it.. at a cost. Since that update all the inventory upgrades cost cash. While it is hard to get by on basic slots, please keep in mind that this is a free game and server storage cost developers real money. For this reason You can get some in-game amenities, but You have to pay for them. There is also the free-to-play path which is called organizing Your home book - from my point of view it is well enough to get by if You choose to get it.

 

2/ Recycling all the unwanted stuff You loot anyways

 

Since the topic was talked over before here is my solution from some other post - simple as is - we could choose not to loot junk weaps/gears:

 

 

(...)This is the most apealing option for me as it would save me some serious clicking. Either bring a new builing that allows us to configure looting or maybe add a few levels to traing center. The basic layout could be more less like:

 

[x] don't loot grey weapons

[x] don't loot white weapons

[x] don't loot green weapons

 

[x] don't loot grey gears

[x] don't loot white gears

[x] don't loot green gears

 

[x] don't loot schematics

[x] don't loot boxes

 

 

With all these options set the intake on the items we get from let;s say 10 autos would be HUGELY reduced.

 

Now the question are:

1/ Does Con really want to change the way spare items are handled in the game?

2/ What should be charged for such a convenient way to get rid of stuff? Fuel ? ( 5k maybe) or cash (5-10 dollars)


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#39
TheOneWhoKnocks

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For me the balance is about right. It was really nice being able to get extra slots for fuel when it was avaible, but we asked for more space and so we got it.. at a cost. Since that update all the inventory upgrades cost cash. While it is hard to get by on basic slots, please keep in mind that this is a free game and server storage cost developers real money. For this reason You can get some in-game amenities, but You have to pay for them. There is also the free-to-play path which is called organizing Your home book - from my point of view it is well enough to get by if You choose to get it.

 

Please read the previous posts, all of the things you point out here have already been discussed about.

 

The "dont loot" option is ok as an idea but for example you need to "loot" green weapons in order to turn them into uniques. Disabling looting green weapons would be....

 

Or is the idea here that you still can loot them, but dont bring them back from the missions?

 

Anyway, the weapons and gear looted from missions is not really the problem, they are pretty easy to get rid of.

 

 

It would benefit this game more if the existing item pool was simplified and organized better.

A little clean up of sorts.


Edited by TheOneWhoKnocks, 09 August 2016 - 04:42 PM.

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#40
Max1144

Max1144
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Please read the previous posts, all of the things you point out here have already been discussed about.

 

I did. I just don't agree with them. What is Your current inventory breakdown? Do You use organizing book?

 

The "dont loot" option is ok as an idea but for example you need to "loot" green weapons in order to turn them into uniques. Disabling looting green weapons would be....

 

Or is the idea here that you still can loot them, but dont bring them back from the missions?

 

Yeah, the concept is to loot them on mission, but not take them home.

 

Anyway, the weapons and gear looted from missions is not really the problem, they are pretty easy to get rid of.

 

Ow, they are. I assume You don't have a dmu. I just sent out 10 auto missions to high level (53-55) gun locations to show You what I mean:

 

1st set:

23 guns - 20 min in recycler

8 gears - 8 min

 

2nd set:

19 guns - 13  min

20 gears - 23 min

 

So after 10 min of gameplay and sending out 10 auto missions my recycler has to work for 65 min.

 

Screen_Shot00327.jpg

 

Screen_Shot00328.jpg

 

If we didn't loot all those things then the recycling problem would be solved. Also - giving the option not to loot junk would allow players to free their slots over time. Sure in both in cases You loose possible components and/or resources, but You have to choose one.

 

I really am in favor of this idea because it could solve two problems at once - recycling and lack of space and at the same time save players some serious clickng.


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