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Tasker Update - Alliance War [ Preview ]


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#21
chris327

chris327
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I just came back to playing after a long time off. The new point system seems stupid and this change will make it worse. I've noticed war isn't longer about getting 20 to 25 point targets but more about sending 4 2man teams and 2 1man teams to raid. You can get more points this way. Raid 2 15 point targets and 1 free 5 point flag you get 35 points with the same amount of survivors as the 5 man team needed to take a 20 point flag. This will o ly make it worse as those over players worth 5 with free flag might be worth 15 now. So it will drive wars to really become free flag grabbing and easy defense 2 man for the win. Seems like your killing the raiding aspect of the game here. When the old point system was there you didn't get anything for the free flags who didn't raid or alliance didn't raid. War involved more skill in that time to get active Raiders flags. Just my 2 cents. 3ggg
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#22
Skull_crusherr

Skull_crusherr
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i agree that pve players deserve rewards too, its only fair. But war points really? that's just stupid, no disrespect to con. i think rather they should get a loot box reward just has raiders get a box based on war points, seems more to me like someone wants to see a spike in dmu sales


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#23
Con

Con
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Oh I forgot to mention, the War Reward costs have been increased dramatically as well (proportionally to the Raiding WP). You'll need to run a lot of manual missions to even get the first tier. There's also nothing stopping raiders from supplementing your points with missions.

 

It's fun to speculate though, I get it.



#24
Skull_crusherr

Skull_crusherr
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con on a non related topic to this , i asked sev the other day if hunter headwear will be tradable soon and he told me you make all those descions.do you have any input for me? :) would just like to know weather there worth keeping as there starting to clog my inventory


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#25
Con

Con
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con on a non related topic to this , i asked sev the other day if hunter headwear will be tradable soon and he told me you make all those descions.do you have any input for me? :) would just like to know weather there worth keeping as there starting to clog my inventory

 

No plans for that, they're meant to be special :P How many do you have?



#26
Aubrey Dickson

Aubrey Dickson
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Oh I forgot to mention, the War Reward costs have been increased dramatically as well (proportionally to the Raiding WP). You'll need to run a lot of manual missions to even get the first tier. 

So like 70% to 80% percent of the city map?


Edited by Aubrey Dickson, 26 January 2017 - 03:44 AM.

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#27
Skull_crusherr

Skull_crusherr
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No plans for that, they're meant to be special :P How many do you have?

awww shucks :/ lol i have 7 ravens 8 pyscos 13 wolves 6 soldiers and 4 sir roundtables


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#28
Jaxx

Jaxx
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Just to give you all a bit more detail, here's how it will work. 

 

- Points are only awarded if you 100% scavenge a location

- Points are based on the location level

- The points gained from doing this are minimal, raiding for WP will gain about 5x as many points

- You can do both PVP and PVE, there's no restriction there

- ALL points have been adjusted to introduce this, you'll now get up to 120 pts per raid, but the reward requirements are higher

 

So if im PVE during the war, and using white flag, can i still score war points from looting ?


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#29
Furryicecubes

Furryicecubes
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As a few others have asked the big factor in this is can a WF player earn these "War" points for the boxes?

 

And as to proportionate increases, (I'm guessing here) a 300% increase in the box values since that's the approximate increase in the WP's from raiding (30 (ish being the highest I've seen) -> 120).

 

So lets take the level 3 box, which is currently 650 points, under the new system that's 2.6k points, at a max of 24 (1/5th of the 120 figure mentioned) that means you'd need to run:

 

2,600 / 24 = 109 fully scavenged missions.

 

at 5 minutes per mission (average) that's 545 minutes, or just over 9 hours. 

 

Let's make it slightly more realistic and use an average of 15 points per mission to account for running out of highest point missions.

 

2,600 / 15 = 174 fully scavenged missions

 

at 5 minutes per mission (average) that's 870 minutes, or 14.50 hours.

 

Over a 6 day war round that equates to 2.5 hours a day or constant missions. Which let's be honest is more than doable, and we all know there are plenty of players that will get that within 3 days.

 

Now lets compare that to raids

 

Using an average of 80 points per raid that:s

 

2,600 / 80 = 33 successful raids.

 

So, assuming someone uses 3 raiding teams, that's 22 hours of return times. For non alt players, the average points value will be lower, and they are more likely to only be able to win using 5 man teams, plus they are highly unlikely to operate at 100% attacking efficiency, so factoring those in:

 

Average of 60 points per sucessful raid, at a success rate of 75%.

 

2.600 / 60 = 44 Sucessful raids, meaning (44/.75) = 59 raids total.

 

That gives us 108 hours of return times, or over a 6 day war round 18 hours per day. Obviously that's the return times, not the play time needed, but 90% of serious PVP alliances are not happy with people that leave their base empty since it offers out free points to their competition.

 

In terms of the play time for 59 total raids you are looking at (average 6 mins per raid) 59 * 6 = 354 minutes or just under 6 hours of actual play time. 

 

I appreciate that this is "speculation" however, it's based on the information you've given us Con. If you don't want us to speculate, give us some damm details of things.


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#30
Luke Ridiculous

Luke Ridiculous
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I have a bad feeling about this...I guess it'll be riddled with bugs :( (I'm just really concerned what will this turn out to be,an awesome feature or a bug laden update and I really hope it's the 1st one :) )

but yeah,still a nice feature/update :D


Edited by Alexandra_Black, 26 January 2017 - 11:55 AM.

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#31
Luke Ridiculous

Luke Ridiculous
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Just to give you all a bit more detail, here's how it will work. 

 

- Points are only awarded if you 100% scavenge a location

- Points are based on the location level

- The points gained from doing this are minimal, raiding for WP will gain about 5x as many points

- You can do both PVP and PVE, there's no restriction there

- ALL points have been adjusted to introduce this, you'll now get up to 120 pts per raid, but the reward requirements are higher

one question,does AI raiding counts as a raid or a mission?


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#32
Luke Ridiculous

Luke Ridiculous
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We have all fought extremely tough battles of dead zone war since aliancewars exists.

Please don't make us all look like idiots to ourselves now.

it could help you earn more points :) and btw,it'll never make us look like fools(it could improve the competency and the diversity of an alliance and allows hybrid players flourish and raise among the ranks)

Sure they do. That is why they are creating content for it and wasting their working hours on maintaining and updating it. Don't be petty just because You don't like an update they made for Everyone to enjoy. Just because you don't (even though you haven't even tested it yet) doesn't mean it is going to "ruin" the game.

 

Whaaambulance, anyone?

ohhh snap...


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#33
Luke Ridiculous

Luke Ridiculous
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*eats popcorn and cooks steak with the heat coming from this thread*

 

 

*eats more popcorn*

...aaaaannnd it's over


Edited by Alexandra_Black, 26 January 2017 - 12:16 PM.

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#34
Sev

Sev
  • 551 posts

As the person who has been working on this, I think that a couple of important things have been missed.

 

Mission points are much lower than Raiding Points 

... like, much much lower.  I think that Con said that PvP points were about 5 times, but in actual fact I think it is closer to 20 times.  The easiest mission areas are about 1/20th of what the lowest PvP level would be.  In fact, with the rewards being scaled up, I think the Mission points could actually be too low at the moment, but we will wait and see.

 

Your missions areas are capped

I can't remember the exact number, but I believe that you valid missions are limited to about 5 levels below your player level.  So as you level up, you can't just farm the lower levels.  

 

The mission points are linked to your level

To counter the fact that higher level areas are larger, harder and have longer return times, the points for areas increase with the level.  They are still substantially lower than the PvP points.

 

The White Flag is in effect

That means, if you put on a white flag, you can't get points. I'm sure there will be mixed feeling about this one, but we thought this was the fairest thing.

The raid points system should ensure that non raiders aren't at the top of anyone's target list, but it will also mean that they aren't immune to attacks either.  You may not want to raid, but you will probably still want to defend your compound a bit.

 

The stats have been recording for about a year

This probably isn't as important as the other things, but I thought you might like to know that I have been recording your alliance pvp stats for about 12 months, so all you awesome raiders out there will have something to show off from day one.

 

 

Finally, and most importantly, all of this is fluid.  

Nothing is set in stone.  

We have taken our best guess at what we think is the right balance, but I am sure that it will have to be adjusted.  We will just want to see the data before we do.  



#35
Aubrey Dickson

Aubrey Dickson
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The White Flag is in effect

That means, if you put on a white flag, you can't get points. I'm sure there will be mixed feeling about this one, but we thought this was the fairest thing.

The raid points system should ensure that non raiders aren't at the top of anyone's target list, but it will also mean that they aren't immune to attacks either.  You may not want to raid, but you will probably still want to defend your compound a bit.

Well this just shot down my plan to create a alliance but i understand completely why y`all are doing it this way 


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#36
Cherry

Cherry
  • 792 posts

As the person who has been working on this, I think that a couple of important things have been missed.

 

 

The White Flag is in effect

That means, if you put on a white flag, you can't get points. I'm sure there will be mixed feeling about this one, but we thought this was the fairest thing.

The raid points system should ensure that non raiders aren't at the top of anyone's target list, but it will also mean that they aren't immune to attacks either.  You may not want to raid, but you will probably still want to defend your compound a bit.

 

You call it tasker update and now you want to force PvE players into PvP?

 

If missions give just 1/20 of raids it would be fair to let WFers take part on earning war points, otherwise this update is kind of irrelevant and only raiders who raid with one or two teams and loot with another will take advantage.

 

Many taskers are totally into PvE and will become easy targets if they pull down WF.

 

This won't help anybody but those people who are out for cheap or free banners ....


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#37
Zingman

Zingman
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Mission points are much lower than Raiding Points 

... like, much much lower.  I think that Con said that PvP points were about 5 times, but in actual fact I think it is closer to 20 times.  The easiest mission areas are about 1/20th of what the lowest PvP level would be.  In fact, with the rewards being scaled up, I think the Mission points could actually be too low at the moment, but we will wait and see.

 

Your missions areas are capped

I can't remember the exact number, but I believe that you valid missions are limited to about 5 levels below your player level.  So as you level up, you can't just farm the lower levels.  

 

So what happens with max level players?  The "5 level rule" is supposed to happen with infected bounties, but we all know it "breaks" because there aren't enough areas within 5 levels of 55, and thus we have bounties in the West Bricks. 

 

At first glance a ratio of 1/20 still seems... a little generous.   A PvP raid at level 55 takes 2 hours with return time (iirc, not going to take the White Flag off to find out).    Since only played missions count and you have to scavenge all containers, you're looking at a minimum of 6 minutes per mission, even with a DMU (speeding up return times + time to load + mission time itself).   10 missions per hour, so yeah,in 2 hours time a DMU could have about the same amount of points as a raider. 40+ locations in Green Plains and Waterside alone, so that's enough to cover two raids by a raider in the same general time frame.

 

Raiders and DMU players are both very small segments of the playerbase (both less than 5% from what has been said), so if a DMU player can pull the same number of points as Raider in the same amount of time, the potential is there for it to be... disruptive.

 

---

 

The mission points are linked to your level

To counter the fact that higher level areas are larger, harder and have longer return times, the points for areas increase with the level.  They are still substantially lower than the PvP points.

 

We'll have to see, but this seems like it will heavily favor high level accounts.   You can correct me if  I'm wrong, but I don't recall there being a strong bias with raiding  (part of the reason people use low-level alts in war for raiding).   DMU accounts with the 5 min return times will of course have a huge advantage here.

 

---

 

The White Flag is in effect

That means, if you put on a white flag, you can't get points. I'm sure there will be mixed feeling about this one, but we thought this was the fairest thing.

The raid points system should ensure that non raiders aren't at the top of anyone's target list, but it will also mean that they aren't immune to attacks either.  You may not want to raid, but you will probably still want to defend your compound a bit.

 

Mixed on this.   Kinda agree with Cherry that the update is supposed to be about the "taskers", yet it forces them to expose themselves to raiding if they want to get the rewards.   I know i won't be taking off the White Flag myself personally, dunno how many others will either.  On the other hand, I do think they should be exposed if they're going to get the exact same rewards as a raider, so I think it's probably the right decision to have the White Flag rules in effect.   

 

---

 

I dunno, still very "meh" on the idea.  Kinda wish there there was a separate reward box for taskers, one tied to donation levels for the tasks, because really, that's what being a tasker is all about, and not running missions.


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#38
Furryicecubes

Furryicecubes
  • 144 posts

As the person who has been working on this, I think that a couple of important things have been missed.

 

Mission points are much lower than Raiding Points 

 

 

Your missions areas are capped

 

 

The mission points are linked to your level

 

The White Flag is in effect

 

Finally, and most importantly, all of this is fluid.

Nothing is set in stone.  

We have taken our best guess at what we think is the right balance, but I am sure that it will have to be adjusted.  We will just want to see the data before we do.  

 

Snipped to save a little space :D 

 

Firstly, thank you for the clarification and correction of the numbers. As well as the fact that missions are capped at 5 levels below. 

 

Given that, is there consideration to either extend that for level 55's or create new level 51+ areas?

 

As to the white flag stopping people earning, that does put a different slant on things, and personally, I think levels the playing field a fair bit and for me, is the right way to do it.


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#39
Disastra

Disastra
  • 31 posts

Such a shame. Not a reward for PvE taskers then after all. 


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#40
Jamesie

Jamesie
  • 12 posts

no freaking way will i be taking down my WF - this is utter bullshit yet again. We are an alliance of looters and it looks like we will yet again be overlooked in favour of children trashing compounds. This may well be the final straw for me

 

 

a very pissed off Mav3rick


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