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#21
lael

lael
  • 202 posts

I am not ashamed that I play this game at all in "RL" and I would wear a dead zone t-shirt, hat or sun glasses with PRIDE.  

 

But there is nothing funny about demonizing, insulting  and/or attempting to attack others on a personal level.


Edited by lael, 17 June 2017 - 10:22 PM.

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#22
Fredswar1

Fredswar1
  • 142 posts

I am not ashamed that I play this game at all in "RL" and I would wear a dead zone t-shirt, hat or sun glasses with PRIDE.  

 

But there is nothing funny about demonizing, insulting  and/or attempting to attack others on a personal level.

 

Haters going to hate, no changing that. 

 

This is nice idea, regardless. 


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#23
Luisssboom

Luisssboom
  • 13 posts

I guess it always depends who you get in an argument with. There will always be some unfriendly and not everybody is compatible in terms of speech, culture and so on with everybody. What you might consider unfriendly some might consider normal. It is an international community.

I won't point to what I consider rude in that specific post as there's no need to drag this any further. I also count on you being smart enough to read it yourself and see what I mean (want to see real alliances threads> check L1N, check S0N, check A0A. that's not an alliance thread, it's simply a thread in whcih they purposely attack another alliance and a certain raider, that's all).

People in this game (some of them) have taken things to far. For example there used to be a time when the recruiting chat was fun. People went in there and just posted funny stuff, maybe they even argued but it was fun. But some...let say that they made the report function a job in itself and at the moment you don't know what you can or cannot say in there because there are some watching the chat 24/7 with the report button in hand. The alliance war has not only become a fuel war (which I have spoken against over a year ago because I think it ruins the game experience for any new raider) but also a ban war. I saw kids reported and banned for stupid jokes they didn't even mean just because certain older raider knew how to trap them into saying whatever was necessary. At the moment for many raiders it's just terror. They cannot talk, they cannot say anything, there are at least a few in this game with alts everywhere in any given alliance that stalk people. I don't know how they have so much spare time but that's what they do. I am risking right now even writing this here.But yes, this is the truth. You want to talk about bad guys? You haven't met them YET! Anyway....if you need any help look me up in game. Same name as in here (unless banned, of course!).

I appreciate your understanding of the matter and have pointed out that not EVERYONE in the I87 alliance is unfriendly (I know a few here and there personally). For me, this is less about banning alliances in the War or banning strategies but more about preventing certain individuals from ruining the experience for other players.

 

The whole idea of a fuel war is difficult to manage and balance and that is a point I agree with and also the reason why I chose to stick to a small private alliance to avoid getting over-competitive. 

 

The Alliance Wars turned into a Ban War mostly because of that aggressive over-competitiveness. Realistically and economically, if you spend so much in game, it's easier to simply buy the fuel and a White Flag book than compete in the Alliance War for the top three places.

 

An alliance relies on all its members, including those who may, at times, be out of line. It's up to the alliance itself to help regulate its individual components, otherwise once external factors (like myself) get involved, the problem becomes messy. 

 

As for your point on raiders "trapping" other kids by manipulating them into saying something they may not mean, it is much harder to regulate that. But the important check that can be used to determine the report's validity is CONTEXT. A manipulative individual cannot simply ask a kid to say something. He needs to wind his way around and that takes a length conversation. To any external viewer, it is very clear when such an act is happening. 

 

What really annoyed me about a couple of I87's members is how they were simply downright aggressive without any warning, reason or else. Their aim was to, obviously, get me angry but as a person who has dealt with this over the years in person, I know how to handle such individuals and not "lose myself."

 

I do not simply wish to ban everyone who is like this. As you mentioned, it is an international community. But just like the interlaced connections in a city, the removal of select individuals helps to peacefully resolve the conflict on both sides. This kind of reporting is more easily done by a socially popular vote (many different players using different IP addresses from across the globe) agreeing to ban select members for their behaviour. It is a complicated system, but it is more rewarding to the general community. 

 

I am not trying to impose a new banning system though, and also am not trying to disband the whole of I87, but I am merely asking them to refrain from insulting others. Again, no names are being listed about those I have previously encountered (and just to assure you, you are not on this short list of individuals which seem to have cropped up in many different situations). 

 

If this verbal war ended between these individuals and the majority of the community, then all will be well. Another point is to bring up is.....why? Why do they make such unfriendly "jokes" to others which seem to lack any kind of coherent logic and sense? There is no reason to be aggressive to your fellow players, and acting in such a manner is like asking to be banned.

 

If you ever want to speak directly in game, my name is the same as in here as well (Luisssboom) or you can contact me by my alt account (Bugboyluis).

 

PS: Forgive me for the late reply. One of the downsides of being is a boarding school is that the internet cuts out at a certain time. I was too slow in typing this reply and could not complete it before the cut off time.


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#24
TanaG

TanaG
  • 128 posts

Luis, it so happened that you had a bad encounter with somebody who was member of 187. Others might have had unfortunate encounters and conversations with members of other alliances. The easiest way to go is blocking those you dislike and ignore them. It is hard to do because naturally you feel the need to reply to whomever annoyed you.  An alliance is formed of 50 members, from all walks of life and backgrounds. Sometimes,in big alliances, you yourself as an alliance member may not like some in there but I learned a long time ago that you have to accept that and move along for the well being of the group. There is no way you can have a big alliance of 50 angels. I have my own reasons to believe some people in certain alliances are pure evil. No later than last night I was told by somebody I was trying to recruit what stories they spread around the game about me, some even involving pieces (mostly inaccurate) of my personal life. I thought .,...well recruiting has gone a long way from the old "recruiting active raiders" line LOL. I'd like to see those people out of the game too. But it's not possible. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

As for the fuel wars...raiding in top 3 has always required certain amounts of fuel burning. Back in the days, there were small amounts of fuel involved, mostly because the targets list was only offering one, two targets. The raiding community was not happy with not having the targets so the list was extended....and extended...and extended which allowed people who could spend ridiculous amounts of money in the game to score and score and score. At this point all one has to do is buy the fuel and then take really easy 20 pts targets that allow that person to finish the raid in a few seconds. So while a hard high pts target may allow you to score let's say 120 pts in 5 minutes, they score 20 pts every 20 seconds, go back, speed up, score 20 more... in the end they would have scored double as you in those 5 minutes.  It is a vicious circle I guess: on one hand people want to have targets so they could raid and play, on the other hand the system is used by some to simply click to win. Don't know what the solution would be there.

 

About the ban wars. Yes, you are correct, it does require a conversation and some players could notice they're being trapped. But some, especially new players, don't even think of it. They don't even know exactly what could get them banned. Let me give you an example. When 187 started, immediately one of these guys moved a spy alt in there. A kiddo in the alliance, not knowing who that was, added him. We of course told him that he should kick that guy asap. The kiddo thought it would be a good idea to troll the spy a bit and sent him some silly messages saying that he was an IT guy who was able to see who was a spy or not. The spy, who's a long time player, saw the opportunity so he started to pock the kid into saying more silly stuff. "do you see my IP address?" "can you hack me?" etc. After that he reported the kid and got him banned. Voila! Another way they do it is reporting facebook pages that most players use just to play the game. Funny thing about this is that they report those pages as being fake ....and send the report from their own fake accounts. LOL But I guess facebook admins are not really paying attention to those details. One in our alliance got his facebook reported and blocked just last night (that's probably in preparation of the coming round LOL, thinning the lines of the enemies). Now...I call that foul play. They might call it strategy. LOL It is up to the devs in this game I think to slow down this ban war. Again, it didn't use to be like this, it's just gotten worse and worse though.


Edited by TanaG, 18 June 2017 - 10:00 AM.

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#25
Luisssboom

Luisssboom
  • 13 posts

Luis, it so happened that you had a bad encounter with somebody who was member of 187. Others might have had unfortunate encounters and conversations with members of other alliances. The easiest way to go is blocking those you dislike and ignore them. It is hard to do because naturally you feel the need to reply to whomever annoyed you.  An alliance is formed of 50 members, from all walks of life and backgrounds. Sometimes,in big alliances, you yourself as an alliance member may not like some in there but I learned a long time ago that you have to accept that and move along for the well being of the group. There is no way you can have a big alliance of 50 angels. I have my own reasons to believe some people in certain alliances are pure evil. No later than last night I was told by somebody I was trying to recruit what stories they spread around the game about me, some even involving pieces (mostly inaccurate) of my personal life. I thought .,...well recruiting has gone a long way from the old "recruiting active raiders" line LOL. I'd like to see those people out of the game too. But it's not possible. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

As for the fuel wars...raiding in top 3 has always required certain amounts of fuel burning. Back in the days, there were small amounts of fuel involved, mostly because the targets list was only offering one, two targets. The raiding community was not happy with not having the targets so the list was extended....and extended...and extended which allowed people who could spend ridiculous amounts of money in the game to score and score and score. At this point all one has to do is buy the fuel and then take really easy 20 pts targets that allow that person to finish the raid in a few seconds. So while a hard high pts target may allow you to score let's say 120 pts in 5 minutes, they score 20 pts every 20 seconds, go back, speed up, score 20 more... in the end they would have scored double as you in those 5 minutes.  It is a vicious circle I guess: on one hand people want to have targets so they could raid and play, on the other hand the system is used by some to simply click to win. Don't know what the solution would be there.

 

About the ban wars. Yes, you are correct, it does require a conversation and some players could notice they're being trapped. But some, especially new players, don't even think of it. They don't even know exactly what could get them banned. Let me give you an example. When 187 started, immediately one of these guys moved a spy alt in there. A kiddo in the alliance, not knowing who that was, added him. We of course told him that he should kick that guy asap. The kiddo thought it would be a good idea to troll the spy a bit and sent him some silly messages saying that he was an IT guy who was able to see who was a spy or not. The spy, who's a long time player, saw the opportunity so he started to pock the kid into saying more silly stuff. "do you see my IP address?" "can you hack me?" etc. After that he reported the kid and got him banned. Voila! Another way they do it is reporting facebook pages that most players use just to play the game. Funny thing about this is that they report those pages as being fake ....and send the report from their own fake accounts. LOL But I guess facebook admins are not really paying attention to those details. One in our alliance got his facebook reported and blocked just last night (that's probably in preparation of the coming round LOL, thinning the lines of the enemies). Now...I call that foul play. They might call it strategy. LOL It is up to the devs in this game I think to slow down this ban war. Again, it didn't use to be like this, it's just gotten worse and worse though.

 

I understand that you see me as someone who simply got into a bad argument with a couple of members of I87. However, the reason I became more dimply involved in the issue was because of the overall reputation of the alliance seems quite bad across many different players. These are players who have been rude and aggressive to others all the time, either for attention or else. They feel the need to show that THEY are better, THEY are superior and they do it by being rude, and by showing off. It's since they feel like there is no apparent consequence giving them no reason to stop. I am not bringing facebook into this but I have been notified of some select comments and posts by I87 facebook accounts being aggressive again by showing that THEY have won, and THEY are the best. Please explain why they are so aggressive. 

 

But on a separate note, talking about being able to see IP addresses and such is only available to the game's creators, not to a simple IT person. If an IT person could, it would mean that they have hacked the game which is a bannable offense either way, even if it is nothing but an empty threat. It is the kid's fault for trying to impersonate an IT technician, not the spy. Say for example, someone threatened to kill you and told you that they know where you live and that they will hunt you (metaphorical example, note, this is NOT TRUE). Even as an empty threat, it is still worrying, and should not be done and can be punished by imprisonment. The internet has strict rules many people do not realize. A simple racist comment on social media can lead to the police knocking on your door.

 

In the end, a hacker is someone who makes the game  not enjoyable by altering it unfairly. What the most prominent members of I87 are doing seems to be quite similar to this definition without the "altering it unfairly" part. They make the game less enjoyable through their aggression, and that is not good advertising for new players anyway.

 

For example, let's say a new player wants to read up about the game quickly before trying it out. In the reviews, he sees that the game has been made unplayable by these sharks and certain members because of their "need for attention" through any means. This, first of all, is not a good advertising for the game and since bad news spreads fast, other people will hear about this and move away. It is in the game's interest to remove such pesky players to keep the game enjoyable (and the forums clean). 

 

Again, returning to our previous topic, explain Wurstl's attitude towards lael over a T-shirt proposal. This is the kind of attacks experienced by many people in game with no warning or provocation. I don't know why, but by coincidence, many of them seem to have their main accounts and alt accounts affiliated with I87.

 

The topic or our argument was to explain the aggressiveness of some members which, per chance, have all been connected to I87 in some way. So again, I repeat my question................................why? Saying they are part of an international community is no valid answer. A criminal is part of an international community, does it justify their actions? No, such behaviour in person can be lead to the police getting involved. In this case, the game devs are the police. Obviously it is much harder to control this on an internet based medium, and people do it through the web because it's safer, cheaper, and they feel no like there is no risk. It is a coward's choice of weapon, and in reality, they are weak and unstable individuals in person. 

 

So again, may I ask you..............why? Why is it so hard to just say STOP? If the Terms and Conditions state that such verbal attacks are a bannable offense, surely that should limit the rudeness in the system. 

 

PS: Note, when you open a chat, these are the first lines that pop up in purple:

COMMAND: Communication system active. Be polite to your fellow survivors. Type /h for help (http://deadzonegame.com/chat-terms - Last Updated March 10, 2016)

 

Note the "BE POLITE TO YOUR FELLOW SURVIVORS" phrase. Now why should they be rude to others for no reason? Why..........


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#26
TanaG

TanaG
  • 128 posts

Luis, Wurst's response would only be nasty if lael was innocent in the matter. She isn't lol one can go around the forums read her posts and will understand that quickly.

At least wurst has a sense of humor. lol

As for the bragging and all that, the PAY post on the forums does just the same thing. Am not sure how that's better than what some in 187 do (in your opinion). But ok let's agree to disagree. As I told you in game, I'd rather digest name calling or whatever they want to do than going around spreading crazy stories about me and involving my personal life in the matter too, that's crossing the line by far. it's the internet, I don't expect everybody to talk to me nicely. But when it moves to stalking, spreading false rumors, putting their nose in my personal life, now that's taking things too far. When instead of just playing the game, they spend their time on 8 different accounts spying alliances hoping they'd get people reported and banned, that's different. This is what makes the game unplayable, not some kids sending nasty comments. That can be solved, you can block them. I don't have a block button available for all the rest of the stuff I described.

Anyway, I think we should stop spamming lael's thread. It will get locked and then we will be the bad guys :P


  • -3

#27
Luisssboom

Luisssboom
  • 13 posts

Luis, Wurst's response would only be nasty if lael was innocent in the matter. She isn't lol one can go around the forums read her posts and will understand that quickly.

At least wurst has a sense of humor. lol

As for the bragging and all that, the PAY post on the forums does just the same thing. Am not sure how that's better than what some in 187 do (in your opinion). But ok let's agree to disagree. As I told you in game, I'd rather digest name calling or whatever they want to do than going around spreading crazy stories about me and involving my personal life in the matter too, that's crossing the line by far. it's the internet, I don't expect everybody to talk to me nicely. But when it moves to stalking, spreading false rumors, putting their nose in my personal life, now that's taking things too far. When instead of just playing the game, they spend their time on 8 different accounts spying alliances hoping they'd get people reported and banned, that's different. This is what makes the game unplayable, not some kids sending nasty comments. That can be solved, you can block them. I don't have a block button available for all the rest of the stuff I described.

Anyway, I think we should stop spamming lael's thread. It will get locked and then we will be the bad guys :P

As mentioned, a lot of the things people have done are actually against chat rules. I will make a post in the community section addressing both sides in a hope to resolve this conflict. I love this game. I don't want to see it ruined by personal quarrels.


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#28
Lana Woo

Lana Woo
  • 299 posts

I just want to point out something very quickly:

 

Luis, Wurst's response would only be nasty if lael was innocent in the matter. She isn't lol one can go around the forums read her posts and will understand that quickly.

At least wurst has a sense of humor. lol

 

This is the problem. If somebody you don't like posts something offensive, you can report it. Posting something offensive back is never the way to deal with this. Of course, this applies to all players, not just in this case.

 

Anyway, sorry about the thread. Maybe sometime it can be reposted and developed, because I really like the idea.


Edited by Lana Woo, 18 June 2017 - 04:13 PM.

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#29
Luisssboom

Luisssboom
  • 13 posts

I just want to point out something very quickly:

 

 

This is the problem. If somebody you don't like posts something offensive, you can report it. Posting something offensive back is never the way to deal with this. Of course, this applies to all players, not just in this case.

 

Anyway, sorry about the thread. Maybe sometime it can be reposted and developed, because I really like the idea.

Yes, I agree and I hope this thread can be developed. I'm planning to try and resolve this conflict as a mediator in the community section of the forum, that way we can all go back to talking about T-shirts here.

 

On that note, what kinds of logos should the T-shirts have? I think a good minimalistic design with the different colours of weapons (unique through to poor) could be printed on the T-shirts, like an inside joke that only Last Stand Dead Zone players would understand.


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#30
Con

Con
  • 4,023 posts

This got ridiculously off topic. Don't insult other forum members, it'll just get you banned.

 

As for the t-shirts, yep, we had some made for promotions. The cost of printing and the logistics and time needed to sell them at a reasonable price isn't something we're able to do at the moment.