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Event: Fog Of War

War! raiding pvp event weather fog

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#1
Midimiaow

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Once upon a time, there was an age of snipers, of men that could pick off entire raiding forces with their legendary weapons and be back in time for tea. It was a simple age, where the law of the gun kept peace across the peoples. All was fine and well until one day, a fantastic fog that rolled in from across the sea. Visibility fell to meters, supplies became scarce and the law of the gun weakened, letting predators stalk the mists...

 

FOG OF WAR

Fog of War events encourage PvP (esp. high levels) and help devs playtest. It might come about every 8 weeks or so, during which time raiding is very different! During Fog of War:

1. People are encouraged to raid NPC compounds to learn how to raid with fog rules in play and get raiding achievements.

2. Devs encouraged to experiment with mechanics i.e. increased aiming times, loudness so that we can have more diverse tactics. [1]

3. There may be a global raiding task; at the very least the bounty office should be busy :)

 

FOG OF WAR RULES:

The sight range is reduced to 15-20m during raids. You (and the defenders) won't be able to see any enemies outside of this range unless they're shooting, being shot at, are close to a spotlight or have triggered a trap - which opens up all kinds of tactical opportunities.

(n.b. considering reducing sight range further to 12-16m to make things more interesting, 15-20m is still out of most range)

 

Tips for attackers:

1. If you shoot at a tower from beyond sight range, the rest of the compound will still shoot back at you.

2. If you walk into a defender's sight they'll shoot you first. Bring grenades and advance cautiously.

3. Watch out for ambushes; you don't know where the enemy is when you start and they might be where you least expect it!

4. Vision is shared. If one of the defenders can see you, so can their snipers. 

5. Suppressing fire still works as normal, although shooting outside of effective range is even less effective

6. You'll still need smoke grenades. 20m is still too far for most weapons (or grenades) to be effective.

7. Attacking with long rifles may work if you get a tank to spot for you, but don't expect good results if the enemy's balled up.

 

Tips for defenders:

1. The attackers can't tell where your survivors are in deployment, so if you have balls you can set up an ambush on the "undefended" side.

2. Traps (even decoys) reveal attackers when they go off, making them more dangerous.

3. Spotlights reveal anyone around them; try to use it to your advantage.

4. It's worth keeping long rifles around to support your frontline defenders (and spotters)

5. Relax, you won't have to rearrange your compound too much. Just think about how you'll use your traps and defenders better.

 

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS

1. PvE missions during Fog Of War: vision reduction doesn't stack with "Ooh shiny" and long range isn't really a PVE thing, but we can increase the vision range for PvE if there's lots of complaints. Major problem's just running into zedblobs, which can be prevented if you know where they spawn.

2. Zed defence: Largely unchanged; zed defence was never meant to be particularly difficult anyway.

3. Night fighting update: If fog rules test favorably, they can be adopted for night fighting (which is the same as day fighting right now)

4. Suppressed and quiet weapons: Devs, please make these useful. 

5. Altered morale effects: would probably suck cause of all the injuries / food and water losses from raiding, so I'm thinking about this in detail.

 

There's also been ideas involving NVGs or thermal sights or other vision boosters as high level passive gear (if night fighting becomes a thing); please add your thoughts and thanks for reading the overly long post!

 

footnotes: I originally suggested introducing new weapons, gear or traps during this time, but realistically speaking the best way to satisfy people is to create new ways to use old content in more inventive ways instead of making more. Like getting new games for an existing console, it's cheaper and more fun for everybody that way. Then again, I'd definitely prepare new weapons, defences and whatnot every time the raiding season came around ;P

 

Edit: 9/07 RAIDING SEASON (optional addon, probably not going to happen)

During Fog of War, NPC "raids" might happen while you're at the compound (Raiders sighted!) These give quite a neat little chunk of XP, but you'll lose some resources if you fail to defend and can surrender if you don't want your survivors to be injured. If you beat the raiders off, you can choose to retaliate and raid their "NPC compound" for XP, basic resources and some gear - so higher level players can "pvp" without pissing off lots of people and try something new and challenging once in a while. 

I'm aware that introducing this will be a lot of work for Con, so isn't vital that this is introduced in the near future - it beats mowing down endless waves of zeds and goes well with the fog of war rules though!


Edited by Midimiaow, 02 September 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#2
Crozzie

Crozzie
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I love this idea. As you said it may encourage raiding and it will change pvp as we know it, People would have to learn to use new defense tactics in this "Fog of war" and not just the usual defense outcomes. 


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#3
Zingman

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1. People are encouraged to raid through reduced food/water drops or other rewards?

 

Honestly think that would have the opposite effect -- people would raid less.   Sure you can get a lot of food/water from raiding, but you can lose it all back in retaliation (and then some).

 

Besides, your gardens/water collectors should be giving you positive production if you've upgraded them properly/completely.


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#4
tangytoby

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I like this idea, I can finally use the grenades and bloodluster and pistols. 


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#5
Midimiaow

Midimiaow
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Attacking and defending will be drastically different with the Fog of War in play, so being bountied may not be such a bad thing! ;D


Edited by Midimiaow, 29 June 2013 - 08:57 AM.

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#6
Cold_Hand

Cold_Hand
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Good idea i also thinking abut that idea nice one!


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#7
WalkerSniper

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This would defiantly make PVP much more interesting, I'm for it. 


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#8
VASH581

VASH581
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I like it. I'm SO tired of being sniped by the tower guy before I can even click on my man...


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#9
David367th

David367th
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http://4.bp.blogspot...320/s2zg1qc.jpg


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#10
Midimiaow

Midimiaow
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Also going to mention now that high-level raiding mostly consists of getting gunned down in your starting zone... so y'know, actually being able to do something would be nice. No 


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#11
Filthy_McBrains

Filthy_McBrains
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Fantastic. One of the best ideas I've seen. It will really make raiding more interesting. 


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#12
TheRyderShotgun

TheRyderShotgun
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WHOOP WHOOP

 

EPIC YES

 

that'll discourage those sons of b*tches to hit me

 

oh, will that apply to normal missions, too?

 

and theres a vision booster, theyre called glasses, and they come in the nerd/geek style, in sunglasses, and in the type i saw on CSI once or twice sometime in the past


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#13
FlyingNinjaBoar

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euh a max vision range of 15-20m? i use guns with 34 range, to they would be useless if i can't see the enemy? i don't like this. i always shoot other players when out of my reach with lmg's and then pick them off with my snipers. this would totally kill pvp for me


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#14
Midimiaow

Midimiaow
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HunterAssasin, it may or may not apply to normal missions depending on the whims of the devs. Although honestly speaking, most zombie killing happens within 10-15m and the only thing you'd have to worry about is running into large packs of zombies that you couldn't see before. 

FlyingNinjaBoar, a max vision range of 15-20m isn't that bad either. Long rifles still work as normal if someone's stupid enough to shoot at them from outside maximum range, because you can see the muzzle flash of people shooting at you and shoot back for you. It won't kill pvp, as long as you adapt to new conditions - long rifles can still work in defence so long as you have a front line of assault rifles or LMGs or other med-ranged attackers to engage attackers.

Hell, it'll actually ENCOURAGE pvp if anything because people won't get gunned down in deployment zones. Defending and attacking isn't as bad as you think it is as long as you adapt to the new conditions.


Edited by Midimiaow, 03 July 2013 - 10:35 AM.

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#15
FlyingNinjaBoar

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FlyingNinjaBoar, a max vision range of 15-20m isn't that bad either. Long rifles still work as normal if someone's stupid enough to shoot at them from outside maximum range, because you can see the muzzle flash of people shooting at you and shoot back for you. It won't kill pvp, as long as you adapt to new conditions - long rifles can still work in defence so long as you have a front line of assault rifles or LMGs or other med-ranged attackers to engage attackers.

 

euhm with my 34 range i would suffer a loss of 14 range, that isn't just right. i was thinking soething different with fog of war. like u can't see around the corner etc. buildings will block line of sight. but ppl can see further than 20m :P it is just stupid to use higher ranged weapons then. and i like to shoot ppl BEFORE i enter thier range. and with my 34range i can archieve that. i kinda understand ur point but i don't like it


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#16
Midimiaow

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That is unfortunate, FlyingNinjaBoar. I guess we all kind of like to mow down attackers in the first 5 seconds without taking any casualties, but that makes attacking impossible... and attacking will be important come Phase 2 of alliances, whether you like it or not. Fog Of War is designed to give attackers a chance and its effects apply to everyone, so it's not like they can really snipe your guys either. All it means is that people have more space to maneuver survivors without getting shot to shit, as defenders usually get the first shot and attacking within effective range of defenders will still get you shredded. As always, you're still outnumbered 5-10 so you still need to be tactical!

Besides, you can't see around corners normally anyway... and buildings SHOULD block line of sight, but they don't. What's "fog of war" without fog? XP

That and the event has been suggested so that it runs for maybe a week and we can see if we liked the changes or not and roll them back / balance accordingly.


Edited by Midimiaow, 03 July 2013 - 12:09 PM.

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#17
FlyingNinjaBoar

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That is unfortunate, FlyingNinjaBoar. I guess we all kind of like to mow down attackers in the first 5 seconds without taking any casualties, but that makes attacking impossible... and attacking will be important come Phase 2 of alliances, whether you like it or not. Fog Of War is designed to give attackers a chance and its effects apply to everyone, so it's not like they can really snipe your guys either. All it means is that people have more space to maneuver survivors without getting shot to shit, as defenders usually get the first shot and attacking within effective range of defenders will still get you shredded. As always, you're still outnumbered 5-10 so you still need to be tactical!

Besides, you can't see around corners normally anyway... and buildings SHOULD block line of sight, but they don't. What's "fog of war" without fog? XP

That and the event has been suggested so that it runs for maybe a week and we can see if we liked the changes or not and roll them back / balance accordingly.

i like to test it though, but maybe we can get ur vision range  more skill based? like a recon they are likely to use long guns so maybe they have a further vision range?¿? the range should be a minimum as the range of ur gun. so my recon can use the 34range guns but my other still have the standard 23 range minimum i set for my weapons. (i am a range heavy player). and as for defense those guns have a range of 49 in the towers with glasses. so they should see further cus they are higher on the ground and have a better angle on the battlefield. this fog of war isn't going to affect my defense only my offense layout. 

 

the only thing i suggest is that the minimum range of a single survivor is his range. (it could be upped if his skill is better than the gun)


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#18
Midimiaow

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The point of fog is that it blocks vision. Unless you have some kind of fog-defeating thing (spotlights come to mind) present, it doesn't matter how good your eyes are. I could have a barrett with 2km range and still be unable to target anything more than 100m out in fog, so excess range really doesn't matter.

I KNOW you're a range heavy player, and I know it breaks your heart to not have that range. Maybe people in towers will have their +5 extra range as normal (or they'd be pretty useless and I guess high vantage does do something) but I really can't see how you could see past 20m...

Besides, if the maximum range of a single survivor is his range then what's the point? You still get shot at if you start shooting from beyond their maximum range (fog or no fog) and it really makes no difference! You still have your effective range, it' just that your "spotting range" at which you actually shoot will be far lower. This just means that if someone else spots a target for you 30m away, you can still shoot at it.


Edited by Midimiaow, 03 July 2013 - 12:28 PM.

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#19
FlyingNinjaBoar

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u know what:

 

lets test it out and then we will see how it will work.


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#20
Midimiaow

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Added possible "raiding season" rules which allow you to defend against simulated raiders and ideas for raiding NPC compounds, which has been a fairly popular idea (esp. due to the overwhelming mass of long rifles in pvp defences; it is still strongly recommended that you think twice before you attack a cluster of them though.) Unlike regular NPC raiding ideas, killing NPCs won't drop high value loot, but it will give you lots of experience and confidence - which is the main goal of PvP to begin with! 

I'm not going to elaborate on just how NPC generation going to work in the main post because tl;dr, but I have procedurally generated plans. Although I know that Con is somewhat opposed to the concept of NPCs and this concept will take a lot of work to realise, I'm reasonably sure that a compromise can be reached.

Happy raiding!


Edited by Midimiaow, 09 July 2013 - 07:01 AM.

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