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Improving Trap Detection (again)/reducing Trap Damage

traps detection raiding pvp

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10 replies to this topic

#1
JHPinto

JHPinto
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EDIT: Disclaimer: this idea is meant to make things more balanced for non-DMU players. For DMU players this is not an issue. Also I have doubts that the new gear will help very much non-DMU players, since they will have to stick with low quality ballistic armors that will probably will not make such a difference. (END EDIT)

Sometime ago, Con nerfed the trap detection rate of recons. Back then it looked nice since traps started adding some real challenge to an otherwise way to easy task.

The last updates finally got raiding to a, imo, quite balanced challenge, where defeating a good defense setup combined with a high quality arsenal now can get really hard, if not almost impossible, considering time restrictions (specially when facing lagging issues).

 

So now, and with future wars in mind, things can turn out really frustrating if after beating a good defense our lasting survivors get downed because of the many traps that are undetected by recons. 

 

In my experience, undetected traps have also been responsible for making harder compounds almost unbeatable, since placing them on the most probable (when not only) path to get to the best shooting spots is an obvious tactical choice that becomes way too time-consuming to overcome.

 

For DMU owners that is perhaps not much of a challenge since they can grenade their way to their goal, but for non-paying players it turns out to be a way too high limiting issue, imo, specially when considering the added costs on medical supplies to heal downed survivors.

So, my idea it just to get the trap detection rate a little higher again, not necessarily to the previous 100%, but perhaps closer to 90% (right now it seems to be around 70% or so). Traps will still do their job in deterring/slowing down attackers, they would just not be more efficient in downing attackers than the defenders themselves, which it's what we have now. 

 

Alternatively, perhaps a new gear item to improve trap detection could be added (perhaps this is already coming, idk)

A third choice could be to reduce the damage inflicted by traps, but I've not thoroughly thought the possible downsides of that.


Edited by JHPinto, 28 August 2013 - 02:14 PM.

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#2
LLiquid

LLiquid
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I'm personally against this.

 

We all know you enjoy raiding and as you say, raiding is now at a balanced level. There were other raiders (including the likes of BrianBore) who thought raiding was far too easy. Now it is at a harder level to present a challenge, you want it made easier again?

 

What about those players who do not want to play PVP but for whatever reason don't have the White Flag? They should become easier prey for raiders becuase some of you are finding it hard?

 

Surely the main part of the PVP aspect of the game is that defenders layout their defences in the best way they can and it is up to players who choose to raid to overcome the defences?

 

The upcoming update has additional clothing items that affect defence for things like elee, ballistics etc http://forum.conarti...ust-26-preview/


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#3
JHPinto

JHPinto
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Oh LLiquid, I had almost forgot how much you appreciate my pro-raiding posts and your tendency to misinterpret them. We come way back, don't we?


When I say that raiding is now at a balanced level I was only talking about the attackers/defenders interaction. If you were able to put all that anti-raider rage aside before reading my posts, you would probably have noticed it. I assume though that since English is not my first, second nor third language, I can have failed making my point clear, hope this straights things up.

 

I'm not asking for easier raids, my main objective when I raid is to put all defenders down, and in general traps don't affect that. I'm just thinking about the next Alliance Wars update. If things are kept as they are right now, tasks such as destroying/stealing the enemy's banner will turn out to be so hard that most players will soon give up on trying it, and the update can become a relative failure like what happened with the Bounty Office (most players now stopped resorting to placing bounties, since they realized that not only it does not deters committed raiders but also that it's too vulnerable to exploits).

Don't bother trying to deconstruct again what I wrote, my patience towards guys like you only allows me to issue one reply per thread.


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#4
BrianBore

BrianBore
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There were other raiders (including the likes of BrianBore) who thought raiding was far too easy.

I still think that, especially when manipulating the AI, which I am able to do quite successfully. Maybe it will get fixed one day, I don't know, but for now it is still easy. Though it's still much better than what it was; and I have to say it does feel more balanced now. Defenders can suppress, and if they have good equipment they can hit hard, which is a refreshing change; it's just a shame they are still as dumb as a plank and so easy to manipulate.

That said, I can see why you want this JH, (the lag issues and the lack of the DMU); but I would have to disagree on this one (despite occasionally having my guys fall to traps as well). But you are in luck as there are some new items coming to help speed up trap disarming without using nades; and that's part of the reason I am against making them easier to detect.

 

Edit: Though you are right in that we DMU owners have it much easier in that respect. So from that perspective it would be nice if things were a little more balanced for non-DMU owners.


Edited by BrianBore, 27 August 2013 - 05:36 PM.

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#5
LLiquid

LLiquid
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Balls!

 

Double post, please move on to the next post


Edited by LLiquid, 27 August 2013 - 06:41 PM.

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#6
LLiquid

LLiquid
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Oh LLiquid, I had almost forgot how much you appreciate my pro-raiding posts and your tendency to misinterpret them. We come way back, don't we?


When I say that raiding is now at a balanced level I was only talking about the attackers/defenders interaction. If you were able to put all that anti-raider rage aside before reading my posts, you would probably have noticed it. I assume though that since English is not my first, second nor third language, I can have failed making my point clear, hope this straights things up.

 

You mistake my post for rage. If you look again, I have pointed out that there is upcoming equipment (due to be released tomorrow) that will help with what you want. That is, the gears that give extra defence against explosive, ballistic and melee attacks along with the tools to make dis-arming traps easier and quicker. I linked to this in my first post. 

 

I will admit, I am not an avid raider but from listening and reading what other PVP players have said, the AI has improved but is still not great and can be easily manipulated. See below for an example;

 

I still think that, especially when manipulating the AI, which I am able to do quite successfully. Maybe it will get fixed one day, I don't know, but for now it is still easy. Though it's still much better than what it was; and I have to say it does feel more balanced now. Defenders can suppress, and if they have good equipment they can hit hard, which is a refreshing change; it's just a shame they are still as dumb as a plank and so easy to manipulate.

 

As for;

 

I'm not asking for easier raids, my main objective when I raid is to put all defenders down, and in general traps don't affect that. I'm just thinking about the next Alliance Wars update. If things are kept as they are right now, tasks such as destroying/stealing the enemy's banner will turn out to be so hard that most players will soon give up on trying

 

This was not made clear in your original post so thank you for explaining it as this was not what I gathered from your first post. I (as a non-avid PVP player) will always differ in my opinion to yours as I would imagine overcoming tricky defences is the main challenge of raiding. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Alternatively, is your main motivation destruction of the "victims" base?

 

Don't bother trying to deconstruct again what I wrote, my patience towards guys like you only allows me to issue one reply per thread.

 

I have not tried to de-construct what you have written, just give my personal opinion of it. If this is something you don't like and therefore will not accept what I consider to be reasonable criticism, then I don't know what else I can say or do.


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#7
Rose Mantis

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Raiding is not meant to be balanced and is meant to favor the defenders you dolts. It is meant to be hard to do, because raiding is not something they want as the main concentration or source of resources in this game. Add in you ALREADY have an advantage of fighting AI...

You would probably complain that AI gets too much advantages like god aim in FPS games (Which makes up for their lack of tactics, instinct, and predictability. You know, the same problem this game's AI has?) You already get normally 3 on 5 odds on any given side of the compound during a raid AND they are AI...


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#8
JHPinto

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Raiding is not meant to be balanced and is meant to favor the defenders you dolts. 

 

 

Sure. That's why with the recent raiding updates (http://forum.conarti...-raiding-fixes/) the first move by Con was to make raids easier, mainly with this changes:

 

- Added extra cover to all compounds to help attackers 

- Reduced the distance that defending survivors will "help" each other at 



Only after raiders, myself included, complained about that did Con reconfigured things to make raiding more balanced on the defenders side, making it harder for attackers. So perhaps you should reconsider your assumptions.


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#9
SQQ

SQQ
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with the new ballistic armor, chances are even a medic can survive a dingdong 3.

 

so i think reducing trap damage is bad. however i think traps should have a guaranteed chance of inflicting injuries.


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#10
Rose Mantis

Rose Mantis
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Sure. That's why with the recent raiding updates (http://forum.conarti...-raiding-fixes/) the first move by Con was to make raids easier, mainly with this changes:

 

- Added extra cover to all compounds to help attackers 

- Reduced the distance that defending survivors will "help" each other at 



Only after raiders, myself included, complained about that did Con reconfigured things to make raiding more balanced on the defenders side, making it harder for attackers. So perhaps you should reconsider your assumptions.

There is a difference to "Making Possible" and "Making Equal"

It is SUPPOSED to be very hard because you are FIGHTING AI. AI needs HUGE advantages to even stand a chance. And if you took the time to read that thread, you would see even pro raiders are saying it made it WAY to easy since The AI is already horrid at best.


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#11
JHPinto

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with the new ballistic armor, chances are even a medic can survive a dingdong 3.

 

I hope so, but I suspect otherwise. Let's suspend this thread until we can check that out.


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