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#1
Ayshford

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Be warned: there is a lot involved in this idea so be prepared for a lot of reading.

 

Background:

The spread of the zombie infection has become global and HERC is increasingly desperate to contain its spread.  Herc scientists have developed a treatment that prevents zombification as long as the treatment is administered regularly.  It is not a cure as the treatment is only as effective as the supply, HERC scientists are working tirelessly to develop a cure.  However, the effectiveness of HERC paramilitary units is greatly increased when the treatment is applied to the front line troops. 

The source of this treatment is a closely guarded HERC secret that has not been shared with political figures of any nation’s government.  The treatment is immunoglobulin (antibody) found to be present in 100% of the virus resistant survivors inside the dead zone. Thus far HERC scientists have not been able to make synthetic versions of protein and have been forced to use what they can collect from survivors. The HERC collection facilities house hundreds of survivors that have been captured, but do not yield nearly enough of the protein for research and treatment.  HERC is now beginning a secret operation with the goal of capturing all the zombie infection resistant survivors in the DZ, so that they can be used in the protein collection facilities.  Heavily fortified HERC outposts have been created inside the DZ and extraction squads have been striking survivor compounds.

 

Gameplay:

 

-HERC outposts appear on map:  These are similar to player compounds in that they have defensive structures and defended by armed NPCs.  HERC outposts are different from player compounds in that they are not constructed out of found materials, they are much more polished and professional looking.  When attacking a HERC outpost there will be zombies on the map that will attack either HERC troops or your survivors depending on threat/noise levels. HERC outposts are extremely well fortified and take much longer to assault then a player compound (30 minute mission duration). If a HERC outpost is destroyed it sends a distress signal to the other HERC outposts, in response the other outposts recall their extraction teams and go into high alert. This stops HERC extraction attacks on your compound for the duration of the high alert timer (23 hours), but also means any HERC outposts attacked during the high alert timer will have more defenders and be harder to take down.

 

-HERC extraction squads attack player compounds: Similar to zombie horde attacks, but instead of zeds you get HERC troops. Number of troops would depend on AI quality, if we get a decent AI that can adjust its attack in response to the defensive set up then small numbers of attacking troops would work… but if it is a simple AI then the attackers would be a large group. If all your defenders are killed and your compound falls you get a message along the lines of “The HERC extraction squad was ambushed and destroyed by a team of survivors before they could transport you to their outpost. Your team has been freed, but not before large amounts of blood was taken by the HERC squad’s medical officer for analysis.  Your team is now suffering from blood loss fatigue.  Blood loss fatigue is a debuff that subtracts moral, move speed, and health from the survivors, while adding a small amount to all action times.

 

-HERC extraction squad ambushes:  Occasionally on the DZ map an icon will appear that indicates an ambush can be carried out. Send a squad of survivors in and the street will appear normal and have zombies spawning. However, very soon after you start the mission a HERC team will appear at the opposite end of the map and begin working its way across.  With the HERC extraction squad are a few prisoners. Zombies will attack both your team, the HERC team, and the prisoners. The HERC team will protect the prisoners if possible and zombies will target HERC team over prisoners, but if the prisoners are killed you lose the mission.  If the HERC team gets to the green zone on the other side of the map you lose the mission. If there are any surviving HERC troops when the mission timer runs out you lose the mission.  If you succeed in killing the entire HERC team with no prisoners being killed then the mission is a success.  Since lootable moving objects is a problem you cannot loot any special HERC items on this mission.  However a successful mission will reward you with a “team leaders lock box” which is much like a HERC supply box but requires no key.  The box has a high chance of yielding something useful like lvl 4-5 medical supplies and a very very small chance of yielding HERC gear.

 

-HERC antibody collection facility/ DZ island:  The as yet unlocked island of the deadzone would be an excellent place for the HERC collection facility.  The collection facility has to be near the deadzone because the collection facility technicians must have a way of exposing the infection resistant survivors to the zombie virus, or the survivors immune system will eventually stop making the antibody. Therefore HERC has turned the island into the most heavily fortified research facility on the planet.  This facility can be attacked, but only in played missions. Also to be able to attack any of the areas on the island you must first destroy two HERC defensive areas, one zone on the bridge and another zone right at the end of the bridge. Once these areas have been cleared you will have a 48 hour window to attack zones on the island before the defensive areas must be destroyed again.  As this post is already quite long I will not go into details about what is on the island, but sufficed to say it would be the hardest of HERC locations to attack and would yield the best items.  There would also be boosters (increased morale, faster heal time for injuries, etc) that would be gotten by completing mission objectives on the island (freeing prisoners, destroying lab equipment, etc). 


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#2
LPGD

LPGD
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At first, I was thinking "TL:DR" but I persevered, and boy, am I glad I did. I think that this would fit in well with the previous DZ games (Beth in UC), as well as giving HERC a more active role. I was always skeptical that they just sat back and watched. This is something I would love to see implemented.

 

I do have a couple of points I would like to talk about, to hopefully improve this.

 

WARNING: Lots of "What abouts" ahead. Read at your own risk.

 

 

I.) HERC outposts

 

- Mission time limit should be reduced to 14 minutes: twice the standard 7, because 30 seems too long. Also, you should be able to bring six survivors because of the difficulty you will have in taking these down.

 

-What about loot? Will it just be resources, or will Team Leader Boxes, weapons, and gear be available? 

 

-What about traps and compound layout? If there are traps, it will be easy to avoid them after a couple of raids, because you will know where they are. There should be several outpost maps, each with subtle differences- mainly, where the traps are located, so it's not too predictable.

 

-What about the functional vehicles that are sure to exist? This is a can of worms that might be worth taking a peek into.

 

 

II.) HERC extraction squads

 

-Wouldn't they capture your survivors and take them away? This should be addressed. 

 

-Can HERC troops disarm your traps?

 

-Will HERC troops use cover?

 

 

III.) Extraction Squad Ambushes

 

-What is the acceptable level of collateral casualties for this? Can any prisoners die? Those are some high stakes, and will be extremely difficult to contend with.

 

-Wouldn't HERC possibly have air strikes at it's disposal? Or will we just toss that out the window for the sake of balance? (I'm all for doing so, actually.)

 

-What happens to the prisoners? Do they just take off, or can you help them? Perhaps you need to build a "prisoner treatment center" before you can undertake an ambush: a few cots and stuff, about the size of a training camp or washing station. Then, you need to protect them for 24 to 48 hours before they leave. They rely on you for protection from zombies and such during this time period. The reward is a morale boost and maybe a blue weapon or something as a sign of gratitude.

 

 

IV.) Antibody Collection Facility

 

-What happens after this is completed? Can you do it again, eventually?

 

-What loot can be obtained? Logically, HERC weapons and gear should be easily found in this base, along with resources. 

 

-Prisoners: See "Extraction Squad Ambush" for my take on this.

 

 

This is extremely well thought out, and though it could use plenty of tweaking, I feel that it has enormous potential. Here are some other thoughts I had about this idea in general.

 

-Team Leader Boxes should require a key, easily purchasable for about 10 to 20 fuel.

 

-There are a whole new level of possibilities that open up if we are allowed to take HERC troops captive. This includes, but is not limited to, defending against HERC hostage release teams, holding the soldier(s) prisoner in exchange for supplies/weapons/gear, interrogating them for information, and stripping them of their equipment. You might also need a prison building that you can build to hold them in. This can be applied to raiding as well, but that's another can of worms for another thread. 

 

 

Anyway, have an upvote. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this idea of yours. Hopefully Con eventually implements it.


Edited by LPGD, 25 October 2013 - 11:08 PM.

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#3
Ayshford

Ayshford
  • 339 posts

I'm glad you persevered, you bring up some interesting points that I wanted to go into but didnt due to the length of the original post.  Most of what you addressed were things that I wanted to leave open for discussion as they could go many different ways with out changing the core ideas laid out.  I'll post my thoughts inside the quote box. 

 

At first, I was thinking "TL:DR" but I persevered, and boy, am I glad I did. I think that this would fit in well with the previous DZ games (Beth in UC), as well as giving HERC a more active role. I was always skeptical that they just sat back and watched. This is something I would live to see implemented.

 

I do have a couple of points I would like to talk about, to hopefully improve this.

 

WARNING: Lots of "What abouts" ahead. Read at your own risk.

 

 

I.) HERC outposts

 

- Mission time limit should be reduced to 14 minutes: twice the standard 7, because 30 seems too long. Also, you should be able to bring six survivors because of the difficulty you will have in taking these down.

I could see outpost mission duration being decreased for my 30, but I would still like to see some 30 minute long missions on the island. I feel like for the (non DMU) return time of hours that there should be a way to get more time playing the game.  However, rather than discussing the allowed time we should discuss the time a mission will really take. If the fastest an outpost mission can be completed is 10 minutes and average time is 15 minutes, then the time allowed should be between 20-25 so that the risk of running out of time is low and mission success is not dependant on a race against the clock (or you kill all the defenders and run out of time looting).  

-What about loot? Will it just be resources, or will Team Leader Boxes, weapons, and gear be available? 

I was thinking that it would be new higher level weapons and gear, plus some res and med supplies. Ideas for new items has been heavily discussed on the forums already so i didn't think it necessary to go into here. 

-What about traps and compound layout? If there are traps, it will be easy to avoid them after a couple of raids, because you will know where they are. There should be several outpost maps, each with subtle differences- mainly, where the traps are located, so it's not too predictable.

 

compounds would be randomly selected from a variety of set designs, for each compound design there would be a another subset of possible trap placements.  So you would not know where the traps are based just on the compound lay out.

 

-What about the functional vehicles that are sure to exist? This is a can of worms that might be worth taking a peek into.

 

HERC outposts are constructed using supplies from helicopter lifts and air drops (supply drop capture missions? hmm....) ground vehicles are not useful due to the impassible roads inside the DZ.

II.) HERC extraction squads

 

-Wouldn't they capture your survivors and take them away? This should be addressed. 


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#4
Ayshford

Ayshford
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This was addressed with the notification that the HERC team that captured your survivors was ambushed.  You do get a debuff from the HERC team taking blood samples though.

-Can HERC troops disarm your traps?

depends on AI quality, hopefully they can. If they can not then the HERC troop spawn will have to be larger to compensate. 

-Will HERC troops use cover?

Same as above, I dont know enough about AI coding to know what to expect. 

III.) Extraction Squad Ambushes

 

-What is the acceptable level of collateral casualties for this? Can any prisoners die? Those are some high stakes, and will be extremely difficult to contend with.

zero prisoner death, the point of the mission is not to kill the HERCs it is to rescue your fellow DZ survivors.  Perhaps I should have called it a rescue mission rather then an ambush, it is really both. 

-Wouldn't HERC possibly have air strikes at it's disposal? Or will we just toss that out the window for the sake of balance? (I'm all for doing so, actually.)

I had not even considered this.  Air strikes are not particularly effective against zombies though and they want to capture survivors not kill them, so i dont see air strikes happening. 

-What happens to the prisoners? Do they just take off, or can you help them? Perhaps you need to build a "prisoner treatment center" before you can undertake an ambush: a few cots and stuff, about the size of a training camp or washing station. Then, you need to protect them for 24 to 48 hours before they leave. They rely on you for protection from zombies and such during this time period. The reward is a morale boost and maybe a blue weapon or something as a sign of gratitude.

nah they just go home, they are all zombie infection resistant bad asses any way. They will be fine. 

IV.) Antibody Collection Facility

 

-What happens after this is completed? Can you do it again, eventually?

The first time its completed you might get some one time rewards, boxes or premiums or somthing, along with some additional story line elements that talk about how awsome you are and the whole DZ recognizes your achievements blah blah blah. After the first time its just like the regular missions we run now though, except they can not be done auto.  Maybe a two day lock out instead of one day, or longer, depending on how good the loot is. 

-What loot can be obtained? Logically, HERC weapons and gear should be easily found in this base, along with resources. 

grenade launchers, flamethrowers and medievil armor!  -jk

-Prisoners: See "Extraction Squad Ambush" for my take on this.

 

 

This is extremely well thought out, and though it could use plenty of tweaking, I feel that it has enormous potential. Here are some other thoughts I had about this idea in general.

 

-Team Leader Boxes should require a key, easily purchasable for about 10 to 20 fuel.

That would defeat the purpose of the boxes, they are not supposed to be like the boxes we have now and only exist because con does not want to code lootable npcs.  Most boxes would have a nice medical item in them, but if you had to pay fuel for it you might as well craft it.  

-There are a whole new level of possibilities that open up if we are allowed to take HERC troops captive. This includes, but is not limited to, defending against HERC hostage release teams, holding the soldier(s) prisoner in exchange for supplies/weapons/gear, interrogating them for information, and stripping them of their equipment. You might also need a prison building that you can build to hold them in. This can be applied to raiding as well, but that's another can of worms for another thread. 

Lots of problems here, but the big one I see is how do we take HERC troops (Big guns, armor, military training) captive? Concussion grenades? tazers? beat them unconscious with baseball bats?  f*ck it, i'll just shoot those bastards in the face cus they sure as hell aint sleeping at my place and eating my food. lol.

 

Anyway, have an upvote. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this idea of yours. Hopefully Con eventually implements it.

thanks, I enjoyed your well thought out reply.


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#5
ArmorJinjrax

ArmorJinjrax
  • 98 posts

It gets my upvote. You've got some really excellent-and above all implementable-ideas in there. I've been hoping for some more Herc involvement since the beacon cropped up a while back. Nice work!


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#6
Rose Mantis

Rose Mantis
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I usually am long winded.. but no caffeine means me slow...

+1


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#7
SleepWalker

SleepWalker
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Now I'm wondering, will the Beacon we made have any part in this HERC operation? 

 

.....Actually, hold that thought:

 

1.  We could use the Beacon to transmitt messages to other player compounds who also have a Beacon, and the message would stay in a collection.  (Basically like leaving a note and stuff)  Maybe make Beacon parts start dropping again in that case?

 

2. We could use it for our own greedy needs!  Radio HERC and pretend you're one of them and need supplies, maybe add a percentage of the call being succesful and getting a supply crate dropped to a certain area on the map (which you would have to go collect later on) or the message would fail and HERC would commence an attack on your compound.  (Worth it biatches!)


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#8
Midimiaow

Midimiaow
  • 329 posts

n.b. level 40-45 content is already being developed as we speak

It's safe to say that we won't be seeing this for a while :)


Edited by Midimiaow, 26 October 2013 - 10:23 AM.

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#9
SleepWalker

SleepWalker
  • 382 posts

n.b. level 40-45 content is already being developed as we speak

It's safe to say that we won't be seeing this for a while :)

Wipe that smile off your face >.>


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#10
lolzarz

lolzarz
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Seeing as it is in HERC's best interests to keep us, the sole source of zombie virus antibody, well protected once captured, why wouldn't we just surrender to HERC and get absolute safety instead of having to rough it out with hundreds of blood-crazed people and squads of elite soldiers on a regular basis?


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#11
SleepWalker

SleepWalker
  • 382 posts

Seeing as it is in HERC's best interests to keep us, the sole source of zombie virus antibody, well protected once captured, why wouldn't we just surrender to HERC and get absolute safety instead of having to rough it out with hundreds of blood-crazed people and squads of elite soldiers on a regular basis?

Well, per say that in order to create the cure and amount of antibodies they need would be all of our blood supply.  And in doing so it would kill us, so, we fight back. :/


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#12
JonCorleone

JonCorleone
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I am very ok with this idea.

+1


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#13
lolzarz

lolzarz
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Well, per say that in order to create the cure and amount of antibodies they need would be all of our blood supply.  And in doing so it would kill us, so, we fight back. :/

Well, let's see. If they feed us well and keep us safe, we can continuously produce antibodies for them to use, because we are, after all, living things which can grow back. But if they kill us, they get more blood initially, but there goes their steady supply. Why would they want to kill us?


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#14
Ayshford

Ayshford
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HERC is not keeping happy free range survivors fed on organic scooby snacks.  They do keep the survivors alive, but only to be continually harvested for as much blood as they can with out killing them.  It is a miserable combination of tortured lab rat and prisoner, the DZ survivors prefer to fight to the death then go willingly with these HERC bastards. 


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#15
lolzarz

lolzarz
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HERC is not keeping happy free range survivors fed on organic scooby snacks.  They do keep the survivors alive, but only to be continually harvested for as much blood as they can with out killing them.  It is a miserable combination of tortured lab rat and prisoner, the DZ survivors prefer to fight to the death then go willingly with these HERC bastards. 

Dude, it's a opportunity for 100% safety after fighting for your life against blood-crazed people every day for half a year. I'd say they'd trade in fighting elite troops and blood-crazed corpses on a daily basis for having to make blood donations. It's just a blood donation; if normal people can do it every 3 months, why can't physically fit survivors?


Edited by lolzarz, 27 October 2013 - 02:36 AM.

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#16
LPGD

LPGD
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It's just a blood donation; if normal people can do it every 3 months, why can't physically fit survivors?

Because HERC will want more than a pint every three months- they will want a pint a week, if you're lucky. It's more than likely that you will have blood drawn every day until you are a shaking mess who is too weak to stand without support. 


Edited by LPGD, 27 October 2013 - 01:56 PM.

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#17
lolzarz

lolzarz
  • 410 posts

Because HERC will want more than a pint every three months- they will want a pint a week, if you're lucky. It's more than likely that you will have blood drawn every day until you are a shaking mess who is too weak to stand without support. 

  That very much depends on how HERC is extracting the antibodies. Yes, the mightiest survivor is going to turn into a shaking mess if they extract full blood every week. Note the wording; WHOLE BLOOD. Because the presence of antibodies is NOT dependent on the presence of red blood cells in the injection given to HERC troops, it is possible to extract either just plasma or white blood cells, whichever contains the antibodies. In that case, it's safe to donate every 3 days without the situation you mentioned happening.


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#18
Ayshford

Ayshford
  • 339 posts

  That very much depends on how HERC is extracting the antibodies. Yes, the mightiest survivor is going to turn into a shaking mess if they extract full blood every week. Note the wording; WHOLE BLOOD. Because the presence of antibodies is NOT dependent on the presence of red blood cells in the injection given to HERC troops, it is possible to extract either just plasma or white blood cells, whichever contains the antibodies. In that case, it's safe to donate every 3 days without the situation you mentioned happening.

 

That is true.  Collecting antibodies in the humane way is not necessarily the easiest or most straightforward way to do it.  You have to have the equipment to filter the blood from the plasma and then place the blood back in a suspension of plasma like fluid, then inject it back into the subject with out damaging the blood cells.  In this story line I have written there is no return of plasma after collection (lack of equipment, lack of empathy from HERC, the reason does not really matter) and there is no consideration for humane treatment.

 

Here is an excerpt describing an antibody collection bleed from "Standard Operating Procedure for Antibody Production in Rats Using TiterMax Adjuvant"  - https://www.google.c...3W2xR7g72o4BnYw

 

 

"" Bleeding Procedures:

1.         All pre-bleeds and test bleeds are taken via the orbital sinus in accordance with the SOP in the FLSC procedure guide.  Briefly, the rats are anesthetized with an inhalant anesthetic.  The anesthetized rat has a hematocrit tube inserted in the medial canthus of the eye and directed caudally behind the globe to the medial-posterior aspect of the orbit. The tube is firmly rotated to cut the conjunctival membranes and the vascular plexus.  Blood will flow into the hematocrit tube.  ""

 

 

 

 

If you dont like my idea you can just say so, but the story line I wrote is one where HERC are the bad guys and do bad things and you dont need to derail the topic by saying it would be otherwise.  These are not your friendly techs down at the plasma collection center that give you 20 bucks and a cookie for donating. There is nothing that is highly improbable in how the story line plays out.  If you wish to exchange living in the DZ for getting injected with zombie virus to force antibody production and regular eyeball bleeding then that is your choice, but I think any one with the balls to be still surviving in the DZ would be tough enough to stand up to HERC and would rather fight to the death than be a lab rat. 


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#19
lolzarz

lolzarz
  • 410 posts

Crap, double post.


Edited by lolzarz, 27 October 2013 - 11:49 PM.

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#20
lolzarz

lolzarz
  • 410 posts

That is true.  Collecting antibodies in the humane way is not necessarily the easiest or most straightforward way to do it.  You have to have the equipment to filter the blood from the plasma and then place the blood back in a suspension of plasma like fluid, then inject it back into the subject with out damaging the blood cells.  In this story line I have written there is no return of plasma after collection (lack of equipment, lack of empathy from HERC, the reason does not really matter) and there is no consideration for humane treatment.

 

If you dont like my idea you can just say so, but the story line I wrote is one where HERC are the bad guys and do bad things and you dont need to derail the topic by saying it would be otherwise.  These are not your friendly techs down at the plasma collection center that give you 20 bucks and a cookie for donating. There is nothing that is highly improbable in how the story line plays out.  If you wish to exchange living in the DZ for getting injected with zombie virus to force antibody production and regular eyeball bleeding then that is your choice, but I think any one with the balls to be still surviving in the DZ would be tough enough to stand up to HERC and would rather fight to the death than be a lab rat. 

 

  It's HERC, the secret paramilitary service of the government and you're saying they don't have equipment to separate blood. So, you're implying they can't just requisition equipment from existing medical services. OK, seems logical.

 

They have significant benefits from doing so, as it allows them to get more concentrated antibodies, allowing them to get the same effect in their injections for 1/10th of the fluid needed than if they injected whole blood. How does the excerpt you gave me have to do with HERC antibody extraction? Why is injecting the zombie virus necessary, when the antibody is not actually necessary, but only the white blood cells producing them? Are you implying that HERC can't even test blood type? Why isn't simply extracting blood from the arm easier?

 

I'm discussing how illogical it would be for HERC to be so primitive in their antibody production and how illogical it would be for survivors not to surrender in the first place. I'm discussing how improbable the scenario is. I refuse to take your ridiculous claims of derailing.


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