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Making Engineers More Interesting In Pvp - Bonus Damage Using Guns Against Buildings

engineers pvp raiding

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24 replies to this topic

#1
JHPinto

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(from another thread about engineers)

 

One thing that would definitely make me use more my engineer would be if they had the skill to destroy structures somewhat quickly even if not equipped with a melee, for instance giving them a 500-1000% bonus damage when using guns against structures. Don't know if this would be too OP, I'm trying to think about a bonus that would make a structure collapse in about 3 times the time needed when using a melee with the same DPS. 

Kinda (just kinda I know) makes sense since an engineer should be able to tell which are the best spots to hit to make things collapse quicker.

 

Alternatively, (and probably a better idea using the same concept, credits to Ayshford), would be adding a "dismantle" skill to allow engineers to take apart defensive structures at 2 range.  It would allow people to take down defensive structures without having to sacrifice a gun slot for melee, or waste tons of grenades. Of course that it would also need to take quite longer than using a melee, but be way faster than using a gun.


Edited by JHPinto, 18 November 2013 - 04:37 PM.

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#2
Ayshford

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him, i dont like the idea of a engineer using a gun to take down a structure. I dont see an engineer as some sort of super sniper that could shoot a barricade to make it collapse, plus that kind  of ranged damage vs defenses structures is OP. How about the engineers get a "dismantle" skill that allows them to take apart defensive structures at 2 range.  It would allow people to take down defensive structures with out having to sacrifice a gun slot for melee, or waste tons of grenades. 


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#3
JHPinto

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him, i dont like the idea of a engineer using a gun to take down a structure. I dont see an engineer as some sort of super sniper that could shoot a barricade to make it collapse, plus that kind  of ranged damage vs defenses structures is OP. How about the engineers get a "dismantle" skill that allows them to take apart defensive structures at 2 range.  It would allow people to take down defensive structures with out having to sacrifice a gun slot for melee, or waste tons of grenades. 

 

You know what, I think I like yours better ;) Added to the OP.


Edited by JHPinto, 12 November 2013 - 12:14 AM.

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#4
Rose Mantis

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him, i dont like the idea of a engineer using a gun to take down a structure. I dont see an engineer as some sort of super sniper that could shoot a barricade to make it collapse, plus that kind  of ranged damage vs defenses structures is OP. How about the engineers get a "dismantle" skill that allows them to take apart defensive structures at 2 range.  It would allow people to take down defensive structures with out having to sacrifice a gun slot for melee, or waste tons of grenades. 

Not OP either, make 2 smokes needed to fully dismantle a tower (Speaking on time here for balance sake), make dismantling cause a long range alert to all towers and to nearby barricades, and badaboom! New tactic that is balanced!


Edited by Rose Mantis, 12 November 2013 - 11:04 PM.

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#5
Midimiaow

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"deconstruct" - works like disarming traps, but with structures!


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#6
Rose Mantis

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"deconstruct" - works like disarming traps, but with structures!

This.

Would let the engie make the most use of smokes of any class.


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#7
The Architect

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"deconstruct" - works like disarming traps, but with structures!

Wouldn't that demean the satchel charges?


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#8
Rose Mantis

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Wouldn't that demean the satchel charges?

Satchels ANYONE can use, and are place and blow. The dismantle would allow a different strategy, meaning in place of satchels, the engie could theoretically bring more grenades for clearing indoors out, or behind barricades, this would also heavily punish pillow forters.


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#9
lolzarz

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I'd actually say engineers being able to destroy structures with firearms not illogical. Not sure if engineering skill should be affected as well though.

 

Normal fighter: Crap, tower up ahead. Let me try to gun through the wooden supports. (Note: Mythbusters has tried with a real tree and you can't cut down a tree with a SAW. As in, the firearm SAW, not the actual saw. Not sure about beams though)

Engineer: Tower up ahead. Now, the thing should keel over if I smash through a beam. No wait, did I just see a crack in one of them?

 

In the latter case, engineer should be able to destroy the tower far easier than the fighter, because engi is capable of identifying weak points, from his experience building stuff. Therefore, while fighter is trying to gun through a random line on the beam, engi can direct his fire onto a weak point and deal more structural damage.


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#10
yipkakin

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I agree what the topic suggested :"Bonus Damage Using Guns Against Buildings"

Engineers are not good at normal combat,but developers can make them be good at Anti-materiel because they know a lot of things about constructions.


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#11
The Architect

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Satchels ANYONE can use, and are place and blow. The dismantle would allow a different strategy, meaning in place of satchels, the engie could theoretically bring more grenades for clearing indoors out, or behind barricades, this would also heavily punish pillow forters.

Well, okay then. Although there is actually default damage penalty on the guns, maybe just lift that instead of actually doing some bonus?

 

What's pillow forter?


Edited by The Architect, 17 November 2013 - 06:05 AM.

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#12
Rose Mantis

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Well, okay then. Although there is actually default damage penalty on the guns, maybe just lift that instead of actually doing some bonus?

 

What's pillow forter?

Pillow forter is a guy that puts all his defenses inside. darn near and his towers infront of his doors. Needing to nade the tower means less ability to flush him out.

The issue with lifting gun debuffs is this will lead to MASSIVE unbalancing


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#13
Ayshford

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I dont think it is necessary to allow the engineer's deconstruct skill to work in smoke. The fact that you could have an engineer with a gun instead of another class with a melee would make them incredibly useful.  Structure destruction in smoke is probably not a good idea, nor does it make much sense that when asking some one to take apart a barricade you cover it in smoke so thick that no one can see anything and expect them to get the job done (thats what satchels are for, you dont have to see anything to be able to drop a bomb in front of a barricade).


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#14
Herpderphurrdurr

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What if the engineers had a dismantle bonus if they equip heavy melee weapons like the chainsaw, long saw, sword, ram, sledge hammer and war hammer?


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#15
JHPinto

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What if the engineers had a dismantle bonus if they equip heavy melee weapons like the chainsaw, long saw, sword, ram, sledge hammer and war hammer?

 

Sorry, but you kinda missed the point: what we are looking for here is for a way to avoid spending a gun slot for melee and at the same time make engineers more interesting. An engineer equipped with a heavy melee, specially if it's an improvised one, doesn't need a dismantle bonus since he can trash any building in a few secs...


Edited by JHPinto, 18 November 2013 - 04:59 PM.

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#16
Herpderphurrdurr

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Sorry, but you kinda missed the point: what we are looking for here is for a way to avoid spending a gun slot for melee and at the same time make engineers more interesting. An engineer equipped with a heavy melee, specially if it's an improvised one, doesn't need a dismantle bonus since he can trash any building in a few secs...

 

Fair enough, guess I'm not qualified to comment on this being that I don't raid at all.


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#17
The Architect

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Pillow forter is a guy that puts all his defenses inside. darn near and his towers infront of his doors. Needing to nade the tower means less ability to flush him out.

The issue with lifting gun debuffs is this will lead to MASSIVE unbalancing

Lol, i'm a pillow forter ^_^

 

My FUEL gen and flag is in there too.


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#18
JHPinto

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Fair enough, guess I'm not qualified to comment on this being that I don't raid at all.

 

Yeah, I don't see a simple way of making engineers more interesting in PvE without adding new content like traps in missions or locked doors/containers that only engineers could open or would open really faster for instance.


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#19
Rose Mantis

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Sorry, but you kinda missed the point: what we are looking for here is for a way to avoid spending a gun slot for melee and at the same time make engineers more interesting. An engineer equipped with a heavy melee, specially if it's an improvised one, doesn't need a dismantle bonus since he can trash any building in a few secs...

You mean ignoring the fact that you have free'd grenade slots, and that that means Smoke + Melee = dead tower with no grenades?

If you want him to have a gun and take out a building from range, Leave the forums now, because you are basically asking for an RPG, and you will be hunted and devoured by the flames of Mordor.


Edited by Rose Mantis, 20 November 2013 - 07:54 PM.

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#20
JHPinto

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You mean ignoring the fact that you have free'd grenade slots, and that that means Smoke + Melee = dead tower with no grenades?
 

 

You lost me there...


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