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Map scavenge traps

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#1
Cerbere

Cerbere
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Recently I noticed that the scavenge missions became linear.
Of course: 
-The zombies becomes stronger, and several types make there appearances.
-There are challenge books that are really useful when you want to rise the difficulty.
 
But all in all you didn't have to think of a smart and better way to move your survivors or a way to use their capacities. Basically, you just have to find or build better weapons to win the mission. 
 
So, I suggest that at a certain level, traps are added to the scavenge maps (scatter bomb, ding dong...). 
As if others survivors went in that location, have set up a camp with traps for protecting them and then have to leave without taking the time to disarm the traps (like Jack in TLS1 and 2). 
 
Doing so will:
-force us to use every capacity of all our survivors to win a mission.
-make the capacities of the engineer and the recon more useful.
 
 
(I doubt that this idea have never been posted but I have searched with the google bar and the search bar of the forum and didn't find anything. So if this idea have already been suggest I apologize.)

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#2
oldgamster

oldgamster
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I haven't seen this before.

 

this will affect being able to complete a location due to moving slower, looking, bringing the engi up to disarm. if you are running manual missions at your max level I just do not see being able to loot everything and be able to get out.

 

Now. how does this work with the auto button? right now any survivor can scavenge. the scavenger does not have better chances of finding better items. their benefit is only in scavenging speed from what i can see. will i now be required to send a recon and an engi on every auto or see them come back blown up and failed every time? if that will be a new requirement for missions then i am against it as it works against those that raid due to requiring certain survivor types to now run missions. it is bad enough we need one of each type for crafting.


Edited by oldgamster, 21 January 2014 - 11:32 PM.

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#3
Cerbere

Cerbere
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I haven't seen this before.

 

this will affect being able to complete a location due to moving slower, looking, bringing the engi up to disarm. if you are running manual missions at your max level I just do not see being able to loot everything and be able to get out.

 

Now. how does this work with the auto button? right now any survivor can scavenge. the scavenger does not have better chances of finding better items. their benefit is only in scavenging speed from what i can see. will i now be required to send a recon and an engi on every auto or see them come back blown up and failed every time? if that will be a new requirement for missions then i am against it as it works against those that raid due to requiring certain survivor types to now run missions. it is bad enough we need one of each type for crafting.

 

Then I am glad that I didn't repost the idea of someone else by mistake :)

 

Now about your questions or remarks:

 

First the time problem:

Yes you are right, that will slow down the scavenge team and affect being able to complete a location. But in an other angle you must ask yourself :

 

Currently, how many time I have completed a location and how many time I didn't?

And how hard it is?

 

I am not a daily player and I have approximately not completed at very best 20% of all my scavenge missions. And, with one of my team It's not rare that I clean some locations (large residence, large hardware store, street) with 3 minutes left at the clock. I don't think that I am the only one like this.

So, that bring us to another point How many traps can be disarmed without using explosives in 1min (trap disarming take at least 15 seconds, if I am wrong please tell me) : at best 4. Then we can imagine that at maximum there will be 3 traps by map (-1 for taking account of the slower move of the team).

Another point is in which level the traps will start to be added. Well I don't no, maybe level 25-30, because at this level everyone have his 10 survivors.

 

Secondly manual or auto:

I think that the traps must be taken into account only in manual and not affect the auto mission. Because the whole point of my idea is 1) to break the linearity of the playing by making the survivors moving as a team ; 2) make useful the capacity of the engineer and recon for those who like to play with the team they create.

 

To end, I have read in the forum (I don't remember who and in wich post) that some palyers say that it is too easy to earn XP in TLSDZ. I don't no yet If I agree with them but it may be a way to solve the "problem".

I hope that I have answered your questions, don’t hesitate to reply if it's not the case.

And thank you for showing interest to this idea.


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#4
oldgamster

oldgamster
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To end, I have read in the forum (I don't remember who and in wich post) that some palyers say that it is too easy to earn XP in TLSDZ. I don't no yet If I agree with them but it may be a way to solve the "problem".

I hope that I have answered your questions, don’t hesitate to reply if it's not the case.

And thank you for showing interest to this idea.

 

Running lower level areas yes you can complete with time to spare. but if you run some of the buildings at your level or call it the max level zone you can run i do not see you being able to get very far at all. disarming takes longer than any scavenge move. now the engineer will have to stay there the full length of time with possible zombies beating on them defusing a bomb. at that point the trap needs to blow up. there is no way a bomb squad could take care of a bomb while being attacked. you might say then you need to protect the engineer. well if you bring everyone in close the engineer will get attacked. i have seen this with scavengers. since they are scavenging they are the most vulnerable and it does appear they generate more agro. so i am thinking the engi will also. next disarming like spotting is not a 100% operation. there are failures. when the engi fails your whole team goes down. I can't see this being a good thing for the casual player or the player that may not excel at running these type games but still enjoys what they can do. I say that because we all have our own talents and limitations. give me a console FPS with a conventional controller and I am a fish out of water to be owned by every 5 year old that can walk. but with keyboard and mouse FPS and we can all have fun.

 

Now here is what I would like is for the game to remain as it is but have a deathmarch or a hard mode option like what you describe. Even now when i run my lowest level survivors to gain them xp and advance them i can not run them in the max levels i have open and i can not complete certain areas.

 

but concerning the part of your statement above I am one of those that does say gaining xp is way to easy and i am forced to level before i want to. add ing what you suggest simply to slow my play down is not the answer. right now when running missions if i run manual missions the survivors on the mission and my leader gets xp. not sure how much he gets but even with him at the pound he gains xp. but when i run auto missions there is no xp gained. when you set up a mission click that little auto box and it will tell you no xp gained. great! I want that same thing to be applied to the inbound zombie hordes. let them roll in but i don't want the xp. I'd also like to see the xp on raids reduced or eliminated. but i doubt that will happen.

 

There are books to equip that allows much xp gain. I think the equation is out of balance in that there are no books on the other side that reduce or eliminate xp gain! nor is there an option to automate inbound zombie raids to gain no xp.

 

like i said i'd personally be up for a more hard core mode. and in particular no more xp... but i don't think everyone would be good with that.

 

on a side question or two: what level are you? do you or have you raided yet? i ask because if you haven't you have no idea what you're missing. if you do raid or get into raiding you will see that PVE is linear and in truth a grind. that is in any and every game out there. i don't know of any way a team could build a game engine so robust and dynamic that as you level it creates completely new ways to grant you xp. if you look at most people in the world they go to the same job's, eat the same food, live in the same place, wear the same clothes (washed every now and then... I hope!), drive the same car to earn the same pay check so they can get a raise and do it all over again for a little more money with a new responsibility or two... then they do it all over again... these games only mimic the linear grind that life tries to shackle people with. unlike these games while i may be a mechanic today i can get the education and become a business improvement specialist tomorrow then i can study operations and procedures and go into plant management... at least in the real world we can jump track, take the iron wheels off and put on some all terrain tires and go where we want if we are willing to work and make the sacrifices needed.


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#5
TheRyderShotgun

TheRyderShotgun
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well, traps in missions HAVE been suggested before, albeit with the name of "enviromental hazards"

 

mostly things like alarms or some sort of noise-making item that attracts zeds or something, but one thing is for sure: while i do wish that missions are more interesting and challenging where i am now, i do not wish for that to happen with traps. too troublesome.


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#6
INoEmo

INoEmo
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It would be a cool new map though.  Its a street with very low zombie spawns (that can set off traps) with a small herc camp at the end with gun lockers like the gun store and security.  The whole way down the street is traps (scatterbombs, claymores, etc) which need to be spotted and disarmed (or just spammed with grenades).


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#7
PeterTehDumb

PeterTehDumb
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well, traps in missions HAVE been suggested before, albeit with the name of "enviromental hazards"

 

Now that I remember what the name was, time to be the forum nazi. :P

http://forum.conarti...-and-blockades/


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#8
TheRyderShotgun

TheRyderShotgun
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Now that I remember what the name was, time to be the forum nazi. :P

http://forum.conarti...-and-blockades/

just hoping over here i dont get blamed for this...


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#9
fusurugi

fusurugi
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I'd like to be able to use watch-towers found in some missions, too.


Edited by fusurugi, 23 January 2014 - 07:30 AM.

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#10
Cerbere

Cerbere
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Running lower level areas yes you can complete with time to spare. but if you run some of the buildings at your level or call it the max level zone you can run i do not see you being able to get very far at all. disarming takes longer than any scavenge move (...) at least in the real world we can jump track, take the iron wheels off and put on some all terrain tires and go where we want if we are willing to work and make the sacrifices needed.

 

Well, again you have raises some good points, but you focus only on the disarming skill of the Engineer and not in the spotting skill of the Recon. Remember that there is a least three ways to deal with a trap ; disarm / explode / by-pass.

(By the way I now that nobody wants to use grenades in PvE but a solution is a solution so I could not push aside this possibility).

 

By applying the rule of three traps by map that I have suggest earlier the thing is:

 

-A small map can be finished in a short period of time with minutes to spare, due to the size of the map you have more chance to cross the way of a bomb and less chance to by-pass it. That mean that you have two options 1) disarm it 2) explode it. the first option is still a good way because small maps means times to spare.

-If big map can't be finished in a short period of time, his big size mean that you have less chance to cross the way of a trap and more chance to by pass-it. That mean three options 1) By-pass 2) explode it 3) if you have time disarm it.

 

To summarize (if my analyze is right) the Engineer will be only essential in small map and the Recon will be essential in both small and big map.

 

You make the remarks that :

 

1)"you might say then you need to protect the engineer (...) there are failures. when the engi fails your whole team goes down".

 

If you put this that way, yes. But, The traps that are already in the game have a limited range of explosion. Basically you just have to push back a little more your other survivors.

 

2)"i have seen this with scavengers. since they are scavenging they are the most vulnerable and it does appear they generate more agro"

 

In most of my scavenge missions my scavenger act alone while the rest of the team take the agro in da face (more particularly in military base, Big/small parks, large hardware store and construction site). But What I have juste write can be take like a full argument since i am agree with you when you say:

 

3) "disarming takes longer than any scavenge move."

 

Indeed, the Engineer is more vulnerable but you can always equipped the disarming tool to shorten the risk of being caught.

 

I must admit that with my suggestion there is a small increased chance of having survivors down. But that also can be a good way to make the medical supplies useful. I don’t know for you but I have tons of them! Mostly because they are easy to find easy to produce and also because survivors are rarely hurt.

 

After careful consideration, I don't think this idea can be called an hard-core mode. Because we have always more option than just disarm. And it's not like that this idea must be implement for inexperienced level 1 (in fact I have suggest level 25-30)

 

side remarks and answers:

 

-Your "No XP" book idea is great, you should suggest it.

-I am level 31.

-I have not raided someone yet (but I have been raided :) ). Mostly because I have not yet the time to react to a "war".

- If I understand correctly, You said that we can stop a game for becoming linear. that seems correct, but for me that doesn’t mean that we can make it a little more interesting.


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#11
Cerbere

Cerbere
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Now that I remember what the name was, time to be the forum nazi. :P

http://forum.conarti...-and-blockades/

 

just hoping over here i dont get blamed for this...

 

Yes ! You are a big bad forum Nazi ! Joke aside, you are not and I will not blame anyone (damn it! :P ) For showing me a previous idea. We all know that it is hard to find previous ideas with the search bar of the forum. And with his title there’s no way that I can find it with the Google search bar.

However, I must say that my suggestion (I may be wrong) as a too different angle of approach. So she can't fit in the « environmental hazard » idea.


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#12
Cerbere

Cerbere
  • 23 posts

It would be a cool new map though.  Its a street with very low zombie spawns (that can set off traps) with a small herc camp at the end with gun lockers like the gun store and security.  The whole way down the street is traps (scatterbombs, claymores, etc) which need to be spotted and disarmed (or just spammed with grenades).

Yes, a special map can be a solution. But that mean an hard-core map.


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#13
Cerbere

Cerbere
  • 23 posts

I'd like to be able to use watch-towers found in some missions, too.

 

What do you mean by Watch-towers found ?


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#14
Cerbere

Cerbere
  • 23 posts
I just see that I made some mistake in my last answer to "oldgamster".
 
In 2) You must read:
-But what I just write can't be take like a full argument since I agree with you when you say: ...
 
And in side remarks and answers you must read:
-If I understand correctly, you said that we can't stop a game for becoming linear...

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#15
INoEmo

INoEmo
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5 posts in a row.  Woah


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#16
oldgamster

oldgamster
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5 posts in a row.  Woah

 new forum members need a break. try not to be so critical. we all made mistakes at some point in our lives due to the fact that no one is born knowing everything.

 

Cerbere what he was referring to is that normally all those responses of yours in a row would normally be in one post. when you look next to the quote button there is a multiquote. this allows you to tag several messages and they appear in you reply bar for separate response. or you go back and edit and add responses unless... unless... there has been another response made that terminates your response. to me it is no big deal but to some the world can end, stop spinning and create an imploding explosion while both falling into and away from the sun at the same time! lol


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#17
fusurugi

fusurugi
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What do you mean by Watch-towers found ?

som mission areas have watchtowers like you can build in your compound, they're only decoration, tho.


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#18
Cerbere

Cerbere
  • 23 posts

5 posts in a row.  Woah

 

 

 new forum members need a break. try not to be so critical. we all made mistakes at some point in our lives due to the fact that no one is born knowing everything.

 

Cerbere what he was referring to is that normally all those responses of yours in a row would normally be in one post. when you look next to the quote button there is a multiquote. this allows you to tag several messages and they appear in you reply bar for separate response. or you go back and edit and add responses unless... unless... there has been another response made that terminates your response. to me it is no big deal but to some the world can end, stop spinning and create an imploding explosion while both falling into and away from the sun at the same time! lol

 

Oh! Ok. Thanks for the explanation. I am not used to post on forum but I assure you that I will not make the same mistake again :)


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#19
The Architect

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Someone is pulling another kronosian.


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#20
oldgamster

oldgamster
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Someone is pulling another kronosian.

 

hmm... i'm not convinced. completely different kind of conversation in a way. determined? yes... insulting? no. and... where kro never would respond to me Cerbere is and tries to work at countering or provide balancing as well as reasons.

 

would some kind of surprises on manual missions be good? yeah. spice things up. i just do not think raid style traps is the answer. the only think that is a draw now for manual missions is getting to explore new locations as I level up. other than that it is auto-city for me just due to the repetition and grind.


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