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Petition For No Dmu On Kong


Best Answer Con , 31 January 2014 - 05:42 AM

Anyway, I guess we've reached a consensus after a hearty discussion.

 

We'll make a temporary book that emulates the DMU in some way, cash only, in the store some time in the future.

 

If it is having a negative effect, we'll pull it from the store and go from there.

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232 replies to this topic

#21
Bruce Lee

Bruce Lee
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.......aaaaannndddd he left us out to dry...

 

I really hope he doesn't add the DMU to Kong; I was hoping of starting fresh.


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#22
Con

Con
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I play on Kong and have played on AG until I reached lvl 22. 

 

I abandoned that account because of the DMU. Trading for anything there when not having a DMU is a horrible experience. It also seemed the quality drops were nerfed in order to combat DMU farmers.

 

That was months ago, before alliances, so maybe things have changed for new players entering the game without plans to get a DMU. If not, then this will only instill the mindset that the game is not on a level playing field for everyone. And this will continue the trend of abandoned accounts. 

 

The quality "nerfs" are exactly the same on both platforms. It's a reduction in finding better items in the course of a single day.

 

 



#23
Akuzed

Akuzed
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DMU brings in money, which in turn keeps the game running, which in turn allows us to play.

Edit: Love the downvotes from a hive mind who simply doesn't like what someone has to say.

 


Edited by Akuzed, 30 January 2014 - 04:44 AM.

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#24
DeadFrog

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Well, look, I would postulate that we are all open to change; trouble is, change usually requires tweaking in the aftermath to smooth things out.  And people get nervous when numerous problems that are very old persist unresolved while new changes are proposed.  The justified fear is an anticipation of new problems that will remain unsolved.  Changes must occur to prevent stagnation, but how is it balanced with addressing existing concerns?  How are people supposed to accept proposed changes when so many previous ones not only introduce new problems, but even appear to be untested?  For heaven's sake, the pathing bug in the middle of the bridge map is still there.  You'd have to deliberately not try the map to not see it.  No one is going to say with authority that you have the time or resources to address these problems in a given timetable, but the perception leads to heavy skepticism to changes like this.


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#25
Akuzed

Akuzed
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Well for starters, Blizzard releases stuff all the time in WoW, even tested, that introduces issues to the game. All the time. They're a company worth millions, at least, with thousands of employees and testers, and you want a staff of four people to be able to iron out all the issues in a patch? What you're asking for is feasibly impossible, because it would take much longer to get new content updated. You're used to getting things fixed from companies that have tons of resources. CAG is basically a 4 man crew, working out of a garage, for all intents and purposes.


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#26
Con

Con
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Well, look, I would postulate that we are all open to change; trouble is, change usually requires tweaking in the aftermath to smooth things out.  And people get nervous when numerous problems that are very old persist unresolved while new changes are proposed.  The justified fear is an anticipation of new problems that will remain unsolved.  Changes must occur to prevent stagnation, but how is it balanced with addressing existing concerns?  How are people supposed to accept proposed changes when so many previous ones not only introduce new problems, but even appear to be untested?  For heaven's sake, the pathing bug in the middle of the bridge map is still there.  You'd have to deliberately not try the map to not see it.  No one is going to say with authority that you have the time or resources to address these problems in a given timetable, but the perception leads to heavy skepticism to changes like this.

 

It's been in place for 14 months on Armor Games and Facebook. Both of those communities are healthier than Kong in terms of player numbers. I'd consider it pretty well tested.

 

Can't help but feel you're drudging up unrelated bugs to justify your opposition to something completely unrelated. 

 

Edit: In terms of implementation, it would be a simple "flick of the switch".



#27
Con

Con
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Well for starters, Blizzard releases stuff all the time in WoW, even tested, that introduces issues to the game. All the time. They're a company worth millions, at least, with thousands of employees and testers, and you want a staff of four people to be able to iron out all the issues in a patch? What you're asking for is feasibly impossible, because it would take much longer to get new content updated. You're used to getting things fixed from companies that have tons of resources. CAG is basically a 4 man crew, working out of a garage, for all intents and purposes.

 

I should note we have an office :P



#28
Akuzed

Akuzed
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I should note we have an office :P

Hahahaha! Not trying to imply anything, just needed to add some perspective here :D


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#29
Bruce Lee

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Did I secretly offend you, Con? I mean, I'm sorry if I did, but I can't help but notice that you don't reply to any of my questions or statements.

 

.....   :(


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#30
DeadFrog

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I agree with you, but things would go over so much smoother if a known issues list was released:

"Hey guys, we released a new map, and here are the known issues with it: x,y,z"

They would then not get bombarded with reports and are thus given plenty of time to deal with the situation.  Especially if the list is kept updated.  People are very understanding.  But the perception is currently really bad.  Hats don't correctly display changes to stats on weapons when equipped; this issue started back last spring.  I had to prod and prod to even get admission of the issue, then it was never addressed again.  It's still not fixed.

I don't expect them to be bug proof, but half the time you bring up an issue, the reply is "wow, we had no idea."  Which would be fine if the issue was very, very specific...  But not really, really obvious.

Anyway, back on topic...   I like how the DMU upgrade would reward people who run manuals, but some small boost to autos would be in order here, no?  You don't want to make them so incredibly bad by comparison, no?  Say, a boost to success chance??


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#31
DeadFrog

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It's been in place for 14 months on Armor Games and Facebook. Both of those communities are healthier than Kong in terms of player numbers. I'd consider it pretty well tested.

 

Can't help but feel you're drudging up unrelated bugs to justify your opposition to something completely unrelated. 

 

Edit: In terms of implementation, it would be a simple "flick of the switch".

I am confident that you have it well thought out, I'm just saying people get nervous


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#32
Flamefalco

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It's been in place for 14 months on Armor Games and Facebook. Both of those communities are healthier than Kong in terms of player numbers. I'd consider it pretty well tested.

 

Can't help but feel you're drudging up unrelated bugs to justify your opposition to something completely unrelated. 

 

Edit: In terms of implementation, it would be a simple "flick of the switch".

 

But you can't attribute the health of those communities solely to the DMU? I'm pretty sure them sharing servers has something to do with it. Unless you plan on joining all three I'm not really sure how this will enhance the player base on Kong...


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#33
AntiElitz

AntiElitz
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The Point is simple: When i look at the post's i see none of the Kong players want to have the DMU at KONG actually. They tell they would change to FB or AG if they wanted the DMU. Game devolopers should also hear what the community actually wants, so why would you implements the DMU against the will of the community ? It's not what they want at all, we dotn need a reason for this. Some of us swapped to kong to play the game without the DMU because they simply don't like it.

 

For me personally, i will quit playing when the DMU comes to KONG, and i am sure, i'm not the only one who thinks so. Kong players like KONG for not having the DMU, so i guess the playerbase will have gone after the introduction of the DMU.


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#34
ironmaidenxp

ironmaidenxp
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dmu will ruin the game on Kongregate, the reason I do not play FB or AG is DMU,  i dont like DMU.


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#35
Zingman

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The quality "nerfs" are exactly the same on both platforms. It's a reduction in finding better items in the course of a single day.

 

Yup I'd agree with that (not that I have much choice lol).  When I had the pseudo-DMU with the alliance boosts I was getting one unique a day (sometimes two).   The difference between DMU and no DMU is that its a lot easier to hit the nerf with it.   Without the DMU you run far fewer missions and as a result, I find a unique every 8-10 days on average typically (sometimes sooner, sometimes much longer).   Applied over the entire server population it translates to less unique items in circulation.

 

Things that will change if the DMU is introduced on Kong:

  • Players with the DMU will level up exponentially faster than non-DMU players (if they choose to do so).   If you''e able to run every mission in the top/highest level neighborhoods with 5-man teams vs. running 15-20 2-3 man teams each day you're going to get a lot more XP.
  • The value of uniques will go down (how much, hard to say).
  • The value of medical items will go down (if raiders can run hospitals in bulk, they won't have to trade with non-raiders as much).  Raiding by DMU players becomes more frequent as they don't have deal with injuries as much.
  • With defenders always home the raiding game changes (better or worse depending upon your point of view).  A player with a DMU is a desirable target if you're looking to down survivors for XP, or just for a challenge as their survivors are always home (excluding raids).  Likewise the chance of an empty/sparsely defended compound will go down, so "easy" fuel/resources  will become less frequent.

 

Are these bad, in and off themselves?  No.  The transition will be rough, but the playerbase will adapt,  As much as we like to think we own our "precious" items, the hard truth is they have no actual value.

 

Am I thrilled about the DMU potentially coming to Kong?  No, but I will adapt as needed. 


Edited by Zingman, 30 January 2014 - 05:21 AM.

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#36
GameRaider

GameRaider
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Now tell me.... Why is increasing the player base on Kong so important? Lets say I am a newbie and i have started out on a DMU free Kong. I hear things about this DMU and investigate. Turns out, the same game is available on Armor games with this upgrade I have heard about. I like the sound of this upgrade and head over to start again in Armor games instead.

 

Lets look at the results of this vs. bringing the DMU to kong. If I liked the DMU and ended up in Kong, then I spend 15$(or whatever it is) for your game, that is profit right there. Now if I hear about the upgrade on the same game over in AG, I move over there and... guess what? I buy the DMU just like I would have if Kong had it available. You still get your 15$. Same money both ways.

 

The only problem I can see with this is the fact that people starting out on Kong do not learn about the DMU on AG until they are a high enough level  and they do not want to start over again. There is a simple fix to this. Why not, as soon as a new player is about to start an account, have an "advertisement" of sorts be shown that tells them of the same game on Armor Games with the DMU upgrade. This would explain the game a little bit and allows them to see what the DMU is and what it can do. There you go, now you will have the same revenue as if you had the DMU upgrade on Kong.

 

For some reason I feel like this is not good enough for you. I am thinking you want a new game to start over on. Armor games is already so far along with the DMU, new players cannot catch up to those who have had the DMU for a very long time. It is possible, but i would guess that most people are not that dedicated to try and catch up. You are wanting new grounds to put the DMU on so that everyone can buy it and feel like they have a chance to be #1 in the game. In other words... you are being sort of greedy and wanting to get as much money as you can quickly instead of waiting for a good thing. Yeah sure, play to pay internet games are all the rage these days and they do bring in a lot of people and money in, but you already have one of those filled with people like you said. If it is such a good thing, then people will still go to it and pay you, but Kong is a different game. People spend money on it that would not spend if it had the DMU. So... you have people paying for the DMU and you have people paying for not having a DMU, buy having both options, you are effectively playing to both markets and making the most out of both of them. This is a good thing, do not lose it.

 

And yes, the DMU makes the payer to regular player extremely unbalanced. This also floods the market and hurts it in a way(except for PvP weapons). The main thing is that it brings such an unbalance between payers and non payers, and this balance is what I have loved about your game.


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#37
justinsr316

justinsr316
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I am at a bit of a toss up. I know many of my kong mates might be mad at me for admitting it but I like the prospect of the DMU coming to kong in a way from a collectors stand point. There is a side of me, however, that doesn't like the idea of it coming to kong as well because of the reasons previously listed by others in the area of value of items, scarcity of specific loot, and the fact that it will basically be a whole new game for those of us vets on kong. I'm not quite sure which side I am leaning more towards at the moment, perhaps no DMU, but I feel that it isn't as simple as that. 

I also agree with another previous post that the increase in revenue may allow for time spent fixing the game, or another dev which equals to more time spent fixing the game, etc. Overall it's your game and I know for certain that the player base greatly enjoys the fact that CAG actually listens to their players than any other dev team that I know but we also know that what you feel is best is what is going to come in the long run regardless. 

I wish overall that other aspects of the game were looked at more intently at the moment; PVP, known bugs, hacks, alliance system, etc but I still appreciate that you are doing what you feel will most affect the game for the better. As the great Zingman once said "I will adapt as needed". 


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#38
ark7th

ark7th
  • 4 posts

I vote against it. I'd rather use a Death Mobile with big guns loaded on it and blast zombies as I cruise down the street listening to Bathory... wait I think there is a game like that on Steam called Zombie Driver. Nevermind. NO TO DMU! >=(


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#39
nickbalow1

nickbalow1
  • 8 posts

DMU is the meaning of pay to win.it is either buy it or suffer with less quality items.it would ruin the game to have for me personally if everyone had unis.it doesn't affect raiding directly that is true. But a non DMU player will be at a significant gear disadvantage when going up against a player who has it. I love play dead zone and get on almost every day. But if DMU gets implemented thats the day I never log onto it again. please con don't ruin dead zone for me and many other kong users


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#40
Con

Con
  • 4,275 posts

But you can't attribute the health of those communities solely to the DMU? I'm pretty sure them sharing servers has something to do with it. Unless you plan on joining all three I'm not really sure how this will enhance the player base on Kong...

 

No of course not, in the same way that you can't attribute it to the demise of X. 

 

Yup I'd agree with that (not that I have much choice lol).  When I had the pseudo-DMU with the alliance boosts I was getting one unique a day (sometimes two).   The difference between DMU and no DMU is that its a lot easier to hit the nerf with it.   Without the DMU you run far fewer missions and as a result, I find a unique every 8-10 days on average typically (sometimes sooner, sometimes much longer).   Applied over the entire server population it translates to less unique items in circulation.

 

Things that will change if the DMU is introduced on Kong:

  • Players with the DMU will level up exponentially faster than non-DMU players (if they choose to do so).   If you''e able to run every mission in the top/highest level neighborhoods with 5-man teams vs. running 15-20 2-3 man teams each day you're going to get a lot more XP.
  • The value of uniques will go down (how much, hard to say).
  • The value of medical items will go down (if raiders can run hospitals in bulk, they won't have to trade with non-raiders as much).  Raiding by DMU players becomes more frequent as they don't have deal with injuries as much.
  • With defenders always home the raiding game changes (better or worse depending upon your point of view).  A player with a DMU is a desirable target if you're looking to down survivors for XP, or just for a challenge as their survivors are always home (excluding raids).  Likewise the chance of an empty/sparsely defended compound will go down, so "easy" fuel/resources  will become less frequent.

 

Are these bad, in and off themselves?  No.  The transition will be rough, but the playerbase will adapt,  As much as we like to think we own our "precious" items, the hard truth is they have no actual value.

 

Am I thrilled about the DMU potentially coming to Kong?  No, but I will adapt as needed. 

 

All of those things can be affected by someone buying fuel, which is far more common than someone upgrading their DMU.

 

Currently, 1-2% of the entire population (over the last two years) of Dead Zone has the DMU. The number of people who bought fuel and used it on speedups and medical items is much higher.