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Too Little Targets At Lvl 50

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#41
Invincible_Jo

Invincible_Jo
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One reason there are fewer and fewer high-level targets is that some of the wallet warriors are apparently getting bored with being easily able to beat every single target they raid and always finishing in the top three spots, and are now trashing and breaking down every stick in their targets' compounds for sport. Well, guess what? You've just lost another target because I have now white flagged my high level compound and will only raid with my lower level alt. If you want more people to stick with the game, perhaps you should stop discouraging us by smashing up our compounds. Sure, I have a DMU and in 15-20 minutes I will have it all repaired, but it is very discouraging to see a sea of red symbols every time I log in and know that I will never, ever be able to retaliate because my enemy's guns and armor look like this: XpliVqH.jpg  Everyone knows that putting a bounty on someone is useless, so that isn't even a viable option for retaliation. I have no problem with smashing for retaliation, but I take care to do minimal damage when raiding, so that is not the reason they are doing this. Plus, since I don't have the all-uni M107 setup, I couldn't raid an L1N or AOA compound even if I wanted to. I guarantee that I haven't raided, much less smashed the compounds of their alliance members. I have spent a fair amount of real money on this game, but I can't afford to arm myself with $400-$500 worth of virtual gear and weapons. If you want more targets, stop being jerks and running people out of the game with your childish behavior.


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#42
gansai

gansai
  • 166 posts

Yup trashing is also 1 of the reason I quitted raiding at lvl 50 even though I had dmu but still sometimes its pain on ass when you loaded your game and found out your compound is trashed...not to mention that non dmu user had really hard time getting nails and resource to repair their compound...Bounty isnt helping at all there are actually alot of player start trashing just to get bounty for their lifetime bounty count(Wolfhound no offence you are the best example :P).I would say White Flag is a better solution than trying to get some really expensive LR from trade.


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#43
Invincible_Jo

Invincible_Jo
  • 94 posts

Yeah, I don't mind getting raided for my flag or resources-- that's part of the game and of course, I do that, too. I am used to getting raided every day, but the trashing is getting out of hand.


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#44
Revenant

Revenant
  • 437 posts
All over the forum i see people complaining about raiding somehow.
People quitting raiding because it's too unbalanced.
people who raid unable to *fun* raid because of no targets.
people creating alts just to raid again.
people complaining about play x pay.
 

I believe the problem is ... the relation between gameplay and economy because as we go higher and higher on level scales we see a drastic increase of availability of those extremely powerful items only for people willing to trade for them. this happens partially because everyone at some point becomes a trader ... . Adding to that factor there are the alt accounts that doubles ...  (dmu) the scavenging potential of a single person. This causes an overflow of those "unique" (no longer much uniques due the overflow) items in the gaming community. this situation increases daily ... raiders/traders and alts scavenge uniques -> raiders and alts buy uniques = simple point, two categories scavenging and only one buying. this causes the overflow.

 

And because trading so so subjective every trader can manage its goods without bounds within the game structure or concept it seems to make all those unique items very, very expensive .... regardless of it's availability, what is illogical because the more items on the market theoretically better are the prices.. this restricts possession of those items only to people willing to buy them, what requires gathering huge amounts of fuel (in key form) that can only be acquired through fuel purchase (or by >4 years of gameplay).

 

The PvP um-balance begins to bother here, non paying players and even low paying players being unable to acquired those items are bound to defeat at every turn both while raiding and defending. Some gets bored with the game and leave, others quit raiding altogether, few decide to get through the effort of acquiring a white flag and focus on scavenging to get those items. All those options are a clear evidence that there is a considerable leave of non paying/low paying in raiding for the higher levels. This is the reason so many complain about lack of raid-able targets while in the alliance wars, because this competition is being held most by people able to compete. 

 

its a economy blob, someday it will implode. who knows if the leave of part of the gaming community from raiding isan't a sign that this event might not be so far.

 

perhaps its time to finally address this issue.


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#45
Ivan

Ivan
  • 571 posts

Its the island hype now,nothing important will be addressed any time soon.


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#46
pedrodelnorte

pedrodelnorte
  • 52 posts

I speak for just about every casual/non raider when i say it really pisses us off when we log on to see our compound in ruins, 10 injured survivors that we have to waste a bunch of medical items on, and an empty fuel generator that we just wasted a bunch of resources on from loading it. 

 

99% of the WFers have these books equipped because of the above statement.  casual/non-raiders play this game for the upgrades and looting items.  When they loot, they leave their compound completely exposed for raiding.  I know it's been suggested a million times, but changing away times to "rest" times eliminates that problem.  Another incentive would be to nerf what the defender actually loses, while not nerfing what the raider takes.  If the raider loots your fuel, they keep all the fuel they raided, but the defender doesn't lose any, or just loses a small percent of the fuel and doesn't have to start from scratch by reloading it resources.  If your defending survivors are downed, don't allow them to get injuries. nerf everything (choose the percentage) from building repairs to resources lost. 

 

These would be two huge issues addressed in the WF dilemma. 


Edited by pedrodelnorte, 01 June 2015 - 02:36 AM.

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#47
Tyrone

Tyrone
  • 135 posts

don't allow people with white flag to get any war related boosts

There are Legion of alliances exclusively dedicated to scavenging, some for the role-play immersion and others because they just don't like raiding. The solution isn't to give everybody different than you the boot, it's to look at what you enjoy in raiding and see how that can be made more dynamic. Most other raiders complain more about return times than not being able to pick on anyone you please, so that seems a better point to focus on. Alliances are intended to encourage community, not force everybody to do exactly the same thing. I've spoken to many players that enjoy raiding for or scavenging to support their alliance and don't want to be forced to do both.

 

you have "alliance" and then there is the "wars". alliance is the donations and war is the raiding. the  truth is, when it comes to point raiding, only 30 people win. your asking thousands of players to strive for a goal that only a very few will accomplish

 

moreover, when this game was first made, there was no pvp side of the game. the fact that it maintained a player base long enough for the game to expand...[raiding is] no longer fun and in fact seems like a chore and a royal pain in the ass.

Lots of people have tried their hand at raiding and decided it doesn't suit them. Some players are casual and don't want to put in the investment raiding requries, others are sick of griefing...

 

WF users are punished in multiple ways already. you don't think losing a book slot hurts? also what a lot of WF nerfers seem to ignore the fact that disabling PvP prevents a WF user from raiding gennys and claiming bounties. they are giving up the opportunity to earn hundreds of fuel a week by using that book. the book is balanced as it is. no nerfs needed. besides, even if you disabled boosts, all the farmers would do is take it off for the item boost and put it back on the next round. so instead of always having a shortage, raiders would only have a shortage every other week..... not a very elegant solution

These are all valid points that have to be acknowledged. Using the WFB has a lot of drawbacks, in and out of alliance wars. I think that a reduction in points gained (-1-2?) if a large portion of the alliance is WF that would do more to "nudge" alliances to err on either raiding or not raiding, but could still be interpreted as pushing people either into or out of raiding altogether. Believe me: more people would choose to give it up.

 

As somebody who uses the White Flag on a semi-permanent basis (because I think raiding is a broken glitched mess)

 

As far as making it more viable for Level 50 players to raid, I had suggested dynamic raid times awhile back, but that kinda fell flat.   Seemed like players didn't want it, or didn't get the concept of it.

I suspect most didn't get the concept, because it doesn't seem so strange to me (It would seem to discourage griefing).

 

There is just a problem with viable targets in general. On my high level account and on my low level one I have serious problems finding someone that is both 1) not in protection or flagged and 2) worth more than a couple of points.

 

Only 10 people in the winning alliances get anything but to win it takes quality participation from more than 10 people so you have people that work hard to help their alliance win but miss out on any kind of reward.

 

The raid return times at high levels are too long at 4 hours.

 

The rewards for warring are honestly not the best way to get fuel at high levels unless you are in the top 10 of the #1 alliance. Give more than just fuel as rewards?

I remember when I was lower level there was a lot of excitement about raiding because it helped get resources that were actually being used (fuel included), besides XP. Now that I'm at level 50 I hear lots of high-level raiders giving up because they don't even use fuel that much anymore and find raiding tedious. The return time issue is clearly a problem, but so is the ease of raiding one person multiple times. Serious consideration of the dynamic return times would help.

 

This may be true for some people but not everyone, and the level 4 injuries start happening fairly early (level 14?)  ...there are some who just flat out give up and put their flag out on the corner undefended hoping you will just take it and go.

1) I don't like sitting around all day waiting for my people to get back, this is why I have the UCS 50% book for all of my accounts, even at the lower levels (lets say 15-16 you are looking at 2 hour returns from raids (because you won't always find level 10's worth points).

...For not having to worry about someone coming by and needlessly trashing all my stuff I give up a book slot, and that makes a much larger differnce than people give credit for.

I think that if injuries from human raiders was removed, that might make a difference. That trashing has been brought up again seems to emphasize the problem.

 

  • Greater incentives for raiding over looting in general; and
  • Greater incentives for actively participating in the war (i.e. scoring points).

At level 50, the only thing you can currently gain out of a raid that matters is... fuel. What the reward needs to be to get more people raiding, I'm unsure.  (I do have the seed of an idea though, stay tuned).

 

As it stands right now, there is little to no incentive to participate actively in the war unless you have a chance of finishing in the top 10 members of the top 3 alliances.   ...increasing the number of positions that win fuel.

I don't even raid (bugs and disconnects around every corner? No thank you), but perhaps success in the raiding war could have impacts for a period of time after that round like reduced return times (nothing huge, something like 10-20%) would help. Perhaps an additional morale boost from succeeding (or just surviving) raiding in the war, and an accompanying increase in accuracy or something when in missions until the next round. Something to bring a benefit beyond raiding, so raiders see something other than "fuel for the 30". Unfortunately, I find raiding at my level mindnumbingly boring because it seems to rely on either glitches or pay-to-win weaponry that I'll never have because I'd rather have good food this week than a digital trophy that I don't care to show off in the first place.

 

One reason there are fewer and fewer high-level targets is that some of the wallet warriors are apparently getting bored with being easily able to beat every single target they raid and always finishing in the top three spots, and are now trashing and breaking down every stick in their targets' compounds. You've just lost another target. If you want more people to stick with the game, perhaps you should stop discouraging us by smashing up our compounds. ...know that I will never, ever be able to retaliate because my enemy's guns and armor look like this: [-snip-]

 

Everyone knows that putting a bounty on someone is useless, so that isn't even a viable option for retaliation. I take care to do minimal damage when raiding. I guarantee that I haven't raided, much less smashed the compounds of their alliance members. If you want more targets, stop being jerks and running people out of the game with your childish behavior.

Griefing drives away players. Retaliation should also be a lot easier (if we had injuries and ammo costs waived for the purposes of that one retaliation, that would help). If the amount of damage caused increased return time (perhaps even for 24 hours or a longer window than just that one raid) that would discourage people from trashing compounds. Would it affect people with tightly packed compounds where several barriers have to be destroyed just to get to the flag? Probably, but we need ideas before we can implement solutions.

 

I speak for just about every casual raider when i say it really pisses us off when we log on to see our compound in ruins, 10 injured survivors that we have to waste a bunch of medical items on, and an empty fuel generator that we just wasted a bunch of resources on from loading it. 

 

casuals play this game for the upgrades and looting items. changing away times to "rest" times eliminates that problem. Another incentive would be to nerf what the defender actually loses, while not nerfing what the raider takes. If your defending survivors are downed, don't allow them to get injuries. nerf everything (choose the percentage) from building repairs to resources lost.

Eliminating injuries that defenders have virtually nil control over sounds fair. However, even not being a raider anymore, I don't know if I can get behind eliminating losses for the defender. If I remember Con correctly, raiders can only take up to 50% of the resources a person has and the defender only loses half of that, which is something as long as we're not being raided repeatedly...Oh, wait, that happened every single week before I bought the white flag. Increasing return times when repeat-raiding a target would definitely have an impact, especially if it took into acount damage caused and resources taken. I considered only allowing Player A to raid Player B once until player B retaliates, but there's no inbox system to save notices and even raiders deserve more than one shot, especially in alliance wars.

 

I'm unfamiliar with the "rest time" proposal, what would that be?


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#48
pedrodelnorte

pedrodelnorte
  • 52 posts

Eliminating injuries that defenders have virtually nil control over sounds fair. However, even not being a raider anymore, I don't know if I can get behind eliminating losses for the defender. If I remember Con correctly, raiders can only take up to 50% of the resources a person has and the defender only loses half of that, which is something as long as we're not being raided repeatedly...Oh, wait, that happened every single week before I bought the white flag. Increasing return times when repeat-raiding a target would definitely have an impact, especially if it took into acount damage caused and resources taken. I considered only allowing Player A to raid Player B once until player B retaliates, but there's no inbox system to save notices and even raiders deserve more than one shot, especially in alliance wars.

 

I'm unfamiliar with the "rest time" proposal, what would that be?

 

I remember con talking about reducing resources lost, i wasn't sure if that had gone into effect yet since i've had the WF equipped/not played much recently.  But as far as I know you still lose 100% of your fuel if it gets raided, no?

 

rest time is more geared towards the kong server since they don't have DMUs. Currently, when you raid or do missions, your survivors are away from your compound from 2-4 hours, leaving your compound completely exposed for raiders.  Rest time would mean your survivors would instantly return from missions/raids, but would have to "Rest" at your compound for the same amount of time it takes for them to return.  this way you can still go out and do missions/raids without worrying about your base being exposed to raiders. 


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#49
LLiquid

LLiquid
  • 2,533 posts

I remember con talking about reducing resources lost, i wasn't sure if that had gone into effect yet since i've had the WF equipped/not played much recently.  But as far as I know you still lose 100% of your fuel if it gets raided, no?

 

Resource lost has been reduced. Your food/water/wood/metal/cloth means the attacker gets 100% but the defender loses only 30% (second figure is from memory)

 

You still lose all fuel from the generator though


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#50
jmababa

jmababa
  • 28 posts

I only steal there fuel and there flag if accesible fuel is expensive you know i wont destroy his base just for the fun of it its hard enough to find bolts but nails easy just always go to lvl 1, 2, 3 and 4 warehouse and hardware store i have 8k nails also if attacker steals from upgrading generator he will get nothing


Edited by jmababa, 12 June 2015 - 03:39 PM.

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