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The Books That Made It Worse

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#1
Rain08

Rain08
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Supposedly I'm going to do a crafting spree. I sent my vM24's to my main account and equipped books. I crafted one 30.83 range M24 and it turned into a 28.11 range M24. When I crafted some months before, I only had a 3% or 4% Gunsmith Monthly and it was better. Now, with a 9% GM and a 19% Quality Crafts, things got worse. Any explanations why this happened? Did I just waste fuel to make a gun worse?

 

bandicam2014-05-0518-07-18-911_zpsf82d94

 

bandicam2014-05-0518-07-15-067_zpsadd4b7

 

Old:

bandicam2014-05-0518-07-53-055_zpsf18e00

 

New:

bandicam2014-05-0518-07-48-361_zps910060


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#2
LLiquid

LLiquid
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When crafting, the "base" version of the result is used.

 

By using a crafted version with a craft bonus, you are effectively throwing the existing bonus away and gambling on getting a better one.

 

Otherwise, people would get a good craft bonus on an item and then use that to craft repeatedly until they had god-like stats on it.


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#3
Rain08

Rain08
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When crafting, the "base" version of the result is used.

 

By using a crafted version with a craft bonus, you are effectively throwing the existing bonus away and gambling on getting a better one.

 

Otherwise, people would get a good craft bonus on an item and then use that to craft repeatedly until they had god-like stats on it.

I know that the stats will be over-written by the new one. What I'm trying to say is how can a better book combination performs worse than a single 4% GM?


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#4
LLiquid

LLiquid
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I know that the stats will be over-written by the new one. What I'm trying to say is how can a better book combination performs worse than a single 4% GM?

 

Because they only give an increased chance of getting crafting bonus. They DO NOT give better crafting bonus.


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#5
dead account here

dead account here
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Because they only give an increased chance of getting crafting bonus. They DO NOT give better crafting bonus.

 

Just gotta love misunderstood words...only crafting-related book I use is the "Crafting on the Cheap" book...


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#6
dumbjock123

dumbjock123
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If you plan on crafting m-24s you should be ready to do a lot more than a single craft.  I'd say it takes about 2 dozen crafts to get one with 18% range...if you want a max craft, it probably takes around 50 or more attempts on average.  Any single craft is just luck.  When you complain about a single craft giving poor results with a book equipped, it's like complaining about opening a single container with a 15% looter on and not finding a uni. 


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#7
Lefty_Grimes

Lefty_Grimes
  • 290 posts

Dumbjock123 is absolutely correct (and nice analogy, by the way).

 

You can't expect to take a mediocre M-24 and turn it into a max-craft in one roll, just because you have the boost and some books. I also went on an M-24 crafting spree at the end of this past round. I ended up using all four of my non-range bonus rare Vintage M-24s and turned them into blue max crafts on range. The least amount of tries it took was probably about 15.


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#8
Rain08

Rain08
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2lazy2quote, will answer everyone:

 

First, I'm not complaining or getting mad or anything, if so, the thread would be full of exclamation marks and capital letters and probably people bashing me. I'm not saying that I want to max craft the M24s or the items that I will craft. Atleast I want it to be a bit better after re-crafting it than before or just have the stats the same. The reason why I made this thread is why did I get worse stats now. I know the book says increases the chance to get a crafting bonus, but it doesn't make those bonuses better. I crafted those old M24s way before the Alliance system was implemented, and there were no changes in the crafting bonuses. But it feels like there's a sudden change too it or it's just me. What I'm trying to say is that there could be  a change done to crafting. Anyway thanks for the answer to everyone. Maybe it's Probability playing. Might be helpful if CAG can tell us some numbers.

 

On a side note:

I did some crafting again, but this time, only a 4% GM. I recrafted 2 items that I crafted earlier, a blue FAL and a purple Marion's Trident with those 2 books. They didn't had Enemy Suppression bonus; however when I crafted it again, they gained Enemy Suppression bonus. So if I use those 2 books, I will received less bonus?


Edit: I need 2 days before I can test that theory. If using 2 books that increases bonus chance, reduces your chances.


Edited by Rain08, 05 May 2014 - 03:19 PM.

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#9
Zingman

Zingman
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Never use "Quality Crafts" -- it's nothing but a fuel scam.

 

All it does is increase your chance of getting a bonus (which is already pretty high), it does not increase the quality of that bonus.  The way crafting works to my knowledge is first it does a roll to determine if it gets a bonus or not, then it rolls to determine what that bonus is.

 

In otherwords, all "Quality Crafts" does is decrease the chance of something like:

 

nobonus_zps447b9cdc.jpg

 

happening, and charges you fuel for it.

 

 

Your best option for crafting is your best "Crafting on the Cheap" plus (optional) your best "Gunsmith Monthly".


Edited by Zingman, 05 May 2014 - 06:16 PM.

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#10
Rain08

Rain08
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-snip-

 

So if they decrease the chances, wouldn't they be considered as false advertisement? It only makes a craft worse and it should have been written as "Decrease chance of crafting bonuses by x%"?


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#11
BrianBore

BrianBore
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So if they decrease the chances, wouldn't they be considered as false advertisement? It only makes a craft worse and it should have been written as "Decrease chance of crafting bonuses by x%"?

That's not what he said. Re-read what he wrote carefully, his English was fine, and he was right about what he said.
I could re-explain it, but there really isn't any point, Zing said it clear enough.


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#12
Rain08

Rain08
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That's not what he said. Re-read what he wrote carefully, his English was fine, and he was right about what he said.
I could re-explain it, but there really isn't any point, Zing said it clear enough.

 

I know that it doesn't make your bonuses better in anyway, it just increases your chances of getting one. I admit that I skimmed his post, I didn't comprehend it that much. So I compared my Vintage Balanced Slicing Sword to him and his starts are worse. So it means that the stats of the crafting bonus would be worse? Like I had a 30%+ damage and 20%+ APS when I didn't used a book, while he had 20%+ damage and 5%+ APS when he used that book?


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#13
BrianBore

BrianBore
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I know that it doesn't make your bonuses better in anyway, it just increases your chances of getting one. I admit that I skimmed his post, I didn't comprehend it that much.

Okay, fair enough.
 

So I compared my Vintage Balanced Slicing Sword to him and his starts are worse. So it means that the stats of the crafting bonus would be worse? Like I had a 30%+ damage and 20%+ APS when I didn't used a book, while he had 20%+ damage and 5%+ APS when he used that book?

No, that's not how it works AFAIK.
None of those books increase the % of the bonus received (assuming a bonus is received).

In other words, the % of the bonus you receive always depends on the roll of the RNG, and there is nothing you can do to influence it on a single roll/craft basis.

Say for example the chances are as follows:
 - 2% Chance of 25% Craft Bonus (Excluding any hard limits/caps)

 - ...

 - 5% Chance of 20% Craft Bonus

 - ...

 - 10% Chance of 10% Craft Bonus

 - Etc...

Then in such a scenario you will (on average) create a 25% (perfect) craft 2 times out of 100, regardless of the books you use. Of course the % I have listed are just for example purposes, the point is the books have no effect on them whatever their true values are.

Therefore, as Zingman stated:

Your best option for crafting is your best "Crafting on the Cheap" plus (optional) your best "Gunsmith Monthly".

The former reduces the costs for you, particularly in batch crafting; while the latter slightly increases the chance of receiving a bonus vs not getting a bonus at all, but it does not change the % of a received bonus.

I hope that makes sense.


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#14
Zingman

Zingman
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I admit that I skimmed his post, I didn't comprehend it that much.

 

Maybe next time don't skim it? geeze.  It wasn't even that long by my standards.

 

You can get a craft with 0% bonus with any book equipped.

 

"Gunsmith Monthly" only reduces the chance of getting a 0% bonus craft.

 

"Quality Crafts" only reduces the chance of getting a 0% bonus craft -- and charges you fuel.

 

Period.  

 

Neither me nor Brian can make it any simpler than that.


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#15
Black29

Black29
  • 82 posts

Maybe next time don't skim it? geeze.  It wasn't even that long by my standards.

 

You can get a craft with 0% bonus with any book equipped.

 

"Gunsmith Monthly" only reduces the chance of getting a 0% bonus craft.

 

"Quality Crafts" only reduces the chance of getting a 0% bonus craft -- and charges you fuel.

 

Period.  

 

Neither me nor Brian can make it any simpler than that.

I had never really given it enough thought, but you sir have just opened up a dozen spots in my inventory!


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