Jump to content

Photo

Bayonets!

weapon mods bayonettes

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

Name says it all - We should have bayonets in the game! Classical, knife, or even epic ones like trident and chainsaw would all be great :P

 

They could be introduced as either an add-on to a weapon (read: an extra gear slot), or simply as a suffix (similarly to "scoped" and "silenced") - Let's hear your opinions!

 

The player could either switch the survivor to use the bayonet with a key, or simply make it automatic once the zed gets within melee range - Let's hear some more opinions!

 

My guess is they would have to be weapon specific...having them for different calibres would be overkill, but an AR bayonet should be different from a longrifle bayonet, which in turn should be different from a pistol bayonet (lolwut?)...or we could just have a select few weapons with the special ability.

 

Suggestions welcome! :D


Edited by Sandro_Jern, 11 April 2013 - 11:51 AM.

  • 5

#2
Cozorav_Kinshra

Cozorav_Kinshra
  • 3 posts

i know what you mean, so all gun had its knockback stat rised but the damage is reduced...


  • 0

#3
The Architect

The Architect
  • 2,995 posts

I agree, but there are short-comings to bayonets than what you might think.

 

- You may add melee functions to a ranged weapon; which makes it OP.

 

- Bayonets are harder to use when attached to a weapon, than when just holding it.

 

- When bayonets are attached to a rifle, say M1 Garand, the front is heavier thus it's going to have a discrepancy of the accuracy of the weapon itself.

 

- You may use bayonets at zombies, but only for stabbing, and some knives are able to get stuck with what they hit. You are more likely to survive with a blunt-force to their head by hitting with their butt-stock.

 

Interesting idea as it is, it poses imbalance, and probable troublesome shortcomings for the game, so i would respectfully disagree.


  • 0

#4
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

I agree, but there are short-comings to bayonets than what you might think.

 

- You may add melee functions to a ranged weapon; which makes it OP.

 

- Bayonets are harder to use when attached to a weapon, than when just holding it.

 

- When bayonets are attached to a rifle, say M1 Garand, the front is heavier thus it's going to have a discrepancy of the accuracy of the weapon itself.

 

- You may use bayonets at zombies, but only for stabbing, and some knives are able to get stuck with what they hit. You are more likely to survive with a blunt-force to their head by hitting with their butt-stock.

 

Interesting idea as it is, it poses imbalance, and probable troublesome shortcomings for the game, so i would respectfully disagree.

 

Hey, i never said bayonetted guns wouldn't have downsides...like I can already see a - to accuracy being an effect...and it was suggested in an earlier thread somewhere to make an offhand melee weapon slot...this could be a continuation of that :/


  • 0

#5
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

I agree, but there are short-comings to bayonets than what you might think.

 

- You may add melee functions to a ranged weapon; which makes it OP.

 

- Bayonets are harder to use when attached to a weapon, than when just holding it.

 

- When bayonets are attached to a rifle, say M1 Garand, the front is heavier thus it's going to have a discrepancy of the accuracy of the weapon itself.

 

- You may use bayonets at zombies, but only for stabbing, and some knives are able to get stuck with what they hit. You are more likely to survive with a blunt-force to their head by hitting with their butt-stock.

 

Interesting idea as it is, it poses imbalance, and probable troublesome shortcomings for the game, so i would respectfully disagree.

 

Hey, i never said bayonetted guns wouldn't have downsides...like I can already see a - to accuracy being an effect...and it was suggested in an earlier thread somewhere to make an offhand melee weapon slot...this could be a continuation of that :/ ...yes, the whole "make sure your survivors are covered while reloading" thing would be rehauled, but hey, nothing wrong with changing game mechanics when they're being changed on regular basis anyway.


Edited by Sandro_Jern, 11 April 2013 - 12:13 PM.

  • 0

#6
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

GAH! another double-post!...I hate that bug :(...well yea, read the latter reply please :P


  • 0

#7
The Architect

The Architect
  • 2,995 posts

Hey, i never said bayonetted guns wouldn't have downsides...like I can already see a - to accuracy being an effect...and it was suggested in an earlier thread somewhere to make an offhand melee weapon slot...this could be a continuation of that :/ ...yes, the whole "make sure your survivors are covered while reloading" thing would be rehauled, but hey, nothing wrong with changing game mechanics when they're being changed on regular basis anyway.

Yeah, sorry for assuming. But adding more complicated functions like that would seriously increase gameplay complexity. But as an automatic function for zombies in proximity could work.

 

If reloading is also a problem, in COD there is what you call Reload Cancellation. What if they add Reload Cancellation and use cooldown? As in 5 melee attacks for every 30s, and your reload is disrupted. But will not attack when not an automatic reload? 

 

GAH! another double-post!...I hate that bug :(...well yea, read the latter reply please :P

Then you can simply report it, it's not like it's always with penalties. It's simply calling moderators for help.


  • 0

#8
LLiquid

LLiquid
  • 2,533 posts

Personally I'm not a fan of this idea.

 

Players choose between either melee or guns. If their survivors armed with guns are getting mobbed, maybe they need to pair that survivor with a melee wielder?

 

Having guns that can cause melee damage would be overpowered and give guns a big advantage over melee weapons. After all, if a gun can do melee damage, to even things out, a melee weapons should be able to be thrown for ranged attack (that is an over the top example but hopefully proves my point


  • 0

#9
Chaosticket

Chaosticket
  • 165 posts

bayonets would be relatively useless really. It was an idea that was shot down after at least one massive thread.

 

bayonets are just ment to be defensive weapons. originally it gave long muskets a weapon on par with the pike allowing musket units to counter cavalry.

 

in more modern warfare the modern is only good for a single-strike. You cant rapid-stab with a bayonet, and it would probably become stuck in the target, especially a flailing zombie.

===================

using guns for melee attacks seems cool but its not. repeatedly using your weapon as a kind of club is bad, as it damages the weapon and its harder to use than an actual club.

 

even if you did have guns as ranged weapons there would a limit on how effective they could be. many of the zombies are fat, armored, or just high health. zombies  would do more damage to gunstock-wacking survivors than the survivors.

 

actual melee weapons would be much better, especially when you get to two handed melee weapons. at best using your gun in melee would be a low-tier option, like level 1-10.


  • 0

#10
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

Yeah, sorry for assuming. But adding more complicated functions like that would seriously increase gameplay complexity. But as an automatic function for zombies in proximity could work.

 

If reloading is also a problem, in COD there is what you call Reload Cancellation. What if they add Reload Cancellation and use cooldown? As in 5 melee attacks for every 30s, and your reload is disrupted. But will not attack when not an automatic reload? 

 

Then you can simply report it, it's not like it's always with penalties. It's simply calling moderators for help.

 

I did, its in the bug section :D


  • 0

#11
James_C_Grayson

James_C_Grayson
  • 237 posts

I'm not really sure about this.

 

 

 

Yes, there may be downsides and all. But it seems OP and may make some unbalancing things happen.

 

 

(And that picture of yours looks pretty epic though.)


  • 0

#12
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

(And that picture of yours looks pretty epic though.)

 

Hah, ty, tryin' to represent well :D


  • 0

#13
Kuronishen

Kuronishen
  • 545 posts

From a programming perspective, the devs would have to completely change survivor AI to allow this. Right now survivors only work in 2 ways when a zombie is in melee range:

 

Melee survivors will swing.

 

Gun equipped survivors will still shoot at point blank range, provided they have ammo.

 

Devs would have to change it so that your survivors target zombies with ranged weapons up until melee range, then switch to melee attacks when zombies close. That might be difficult.

 

All that aside, for the bayonetted weapons to be balanced, they would have to be worse at melee than a dedicated melee weapon, and worse at ranged combat than a straight rifle. That really doesn't sound appealing.


Edited by Kuronishen, 12 April 2013 - 01:25 AM.

  • 0

#14
Sandro_Jern

Sandro_Jern
  • 778 posts

Nah, I know for a fact its not difficult to program it...since we already have both ai behaviours (ranged attack and melee swing), all the devs would have to do is set the appropriate triggers for each type of behaviour 

 

(I never bothered actually studying AS, but the algorithm is simple, something like

 

[on event (target within shooting range) => go(ranged combat)]

[on event (target within melee range) => go(melee combat)] 

Set priority: melee > ranged

 

OR SOMETHING, idk, I never wanted to actually get into programming :P

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

But yea, seeing how the thread is getting lots of negative responses due to balance issues and such, I'm ditching it...feel free to keep posting if you want to.


Edited by Sandro_Jern, 12 April 2013 - 02:13 AM.

  • 0